Sustain Open Source Design

Guest Stephen Okonkwo Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain Open Source Design, the OSCA 2023 series, host Richard welcomes Steve Okonkwo, a multidisciplinary designer who actively contributes to the Open Source Community Africa (OSCA). Steve sheds light on his role in enhancing user experience through thoughtful design, particularly for OSCA, and shares his dedication to continue elevating the design team's work. Richard and Steve discuss the Sustain sub-event, the importance of design in open source, and the intricacies of conference planning around open source products. Steve also touches on the significance of research, the need for transparency in open source communities, and his personal journey and future aspirations within the design landscape. Press download now to hear more! [00:01:12] Steve tells us about his career as a multidisciplinary designer and his work in open source. He discusses his focus on improving user experience through design, including website and brand identity design for OSCA. [00:02:03] Richard compliments the OSCA’s branding, particularly the orange logos, and Steve mentions that OSCA has been his primary focus, and he plans to continue supporting their design team. [00:03:02] There was a large attendance at the last OSCAFest and a Sustain sub-event. Steve tells us he was the design facilitator for the design side of Sustain. [00:03:31] Steve highlights key points from OSCA discussions, including the growing opportunities for designers in open source and the importance of contributing to project aesthetics. [00:05:22] The conversation shifts to the iterative nature of web design and user experience, and Steve emphasizes the importance of research and testing in design updates to prevent overwhelming users. [00:06:29] Richard discusses the uniqueness of working with open source communities and the need for transparency. Steve talks about his approach to working with open source, emphasizing transparency, communications, and commitment to quality. [00:08:00] Richard asks about building a conference around open source products, and Steve shares insights from OSCAFest, including showcasing new tools like Penpot. [00:10:06] Richard inquires about challenges in designing the OSCA festival, and Steven mentions issues with physical artwork and space design. [00:10:53] What’s next for Steve? He talks about his current role as a multidisciplinary designer in Spokane, Washington, and his aspirations in open source design. [00:11:57] Find out where you can find out more about Steve’s work on the web. Quotes [00:05:11] “They always say in the tech industry, the web is never done.” [00:05:37] “Research is a very important part of design.” Links Open Source Design X/Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source X/Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]) SustainOSS Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/tags/sustainoss) Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) (https://opencollective.com/sustainoss) Richard Littauer Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@richlitt) Richard Littauer Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/richlittv3) Steve Okonkwo Twitter (https://twitter.com/steveanthny) Stephen Okonkwo LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenokonkwo/) Steve Okonkwo Website (https://read.cv/steve990) Penpot (https://penpot.app/) OSCA (https://oscafrica.org/) OSCA Festival (https://festival.oscafrica.org/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Stephen Okonkwo.

Guest Veethika Mishra Panelist Richard Littauer | Django Skorupa | Victory Brown Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source with design. Learn how we, as designers, interface with open source in a sustainable way, how we integrate into different communities, and how we as coders, work with other designers. In today’s episode, we are joined by guest, Veethika Mishra, a Senior Product Designer at GitLab, who shares her career path, emphasizing her move from closed to open source design work. She shares valuable insights into the design process at GitLab, which involves continuous interaction between designers and product managers and active participation of the user community. We discuss the power of open source contributions, the importance of community engagement, and the challenges faced in integrating external designers. Go ahead and download this episode now to hear more! [00:02:37] Veethika discusses her career path and transition from a secretive and proprietary organization to open source companies like Red Hat and GitLab. [00:04:25] At Red Hat, Veethika was part of the team that worked on the landing page for the developer console of OpenShift, which she greatly enjoyed. However, she wanted more engagement with the open source community, leading her to GitLab. [00:06:10] Richard asks Veethika about any potential advantages of design in a closed source environment, and she responds that she doesn’t miss anything from her time in such an environment and considers some practices within these companies as absurd. [00:08:03] Django asks Veethika to talk about her research experiences, and she explains that research in an open environment provides a more accessible and authentic dataset, which benefits the product design process. [00:11:15] We hear about Veethika’s GitLab’s experience and the continuous learning process to ensure valuable community contributions. [00:13:29] Richard asks about the user base and the number of designers at GitLab, which Veethika reveals they have 30 million+ users, four designers in the CI/CD UX, and possible over 30 designers across the company. [00:14:05] Discussing the integration of designer input within developer teams at GitLab, Veethika describes GitLab’s publicly documented product development flow. [00:16:19] Victory questions the collaboration between volunteer and employed designers at GitLab, and Veethika explains that while most designers working on different problems are GitLab employees, there are contribution guidelines for UX. She also mentions GitLab’s Pajamas Design System as a more accessible and familiar space for designers to make contributions. [00:20:12] Richard asks about handling the potential backlash from unpopular design decisions. Veethika responds that there’s no guaranteed way to mitigate such reactions but mentions that engaging with the community has made her a better communicator and designer. [00:21:03] We hear about the types of design contributions GitLab encourages from the community as Veethika explains the flexibility in contributions to Pajamas, and she details the process of making contributions via the Web IDE on the Pajamas website. [00:22:46] Richard asks about the barriers to open source design roles and how to overcome them. Veethika shares her opinion that the main barrier is the lack of open source ethos within many organizations. [00:25:19] Django asks if the scenario has changed over the years regarding open source design roles and Veethika notes an improvement in designer participation in open source. [00:26:45] Veethika tells us her views on Penpot Fest. [00:27:32] Veethika shares her hopes for the future of open source design, emphasizing the need for a deeper understanding of the socio-political impact of technological decisions and the diversification of the open source community. [00:29:21] Find out where you can follow Veethika and her work on the web. Quotes [00:10:17] “When you combine open and when you make it more visible and discoverable for others to see, these two things combined make a lot of impact.” [00:23:06] “If an organization isn’t practicing open source development methods, then they have no reason having a designer that really cares for open source.” [00:23:16] “It’s only when they live this ethos of openness when they realize the scale of impact this can bring to their business, not just to the community.” [00:24:51] “We can keep pointing fingers at others and not realize that it’s also us who have a certain obligation towards the society and it’s larger good, and open source is the only way to make it happen at this point.” [00:27:04] “Penpot Fest was really different!” [00:28:39] “We need to diversify the community that’s behind open source projects.” Spotlight [00:30:07] Django’s spotlight is Rory Colgan. [00:32:09] Victory’s spotlight is CHAOSS Africa. [00:33:17] Richard’s spotlight is LEUCHTTURM 1917 Journals. [00:33:53] Veethika’s spotlight is Creative Commons. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Django Skorupa Twitter (https://twitter.com/djangoskorupa) Victory Brown Twitter (https://twitter.com/VictoryBrown_) Veethika Mishra Website (https://www.veethika.com/) Veethika Mishra GitLab (https://gitlab.com/veethika) Veethika Mishra LinkedIn (https://ca.linkedin.com/in/veethika?challengeId=AQE0QFpZIJctVwAAAYnB_ebDQoBVgurdSArdJwcVAPi22tNAdclHymNg3Bgyceb6HD6-dDQMDLONiOuud-komQ0u2t6haJsmYw&submissionId=2e2d1b66-5444-7817-de98-664e99d7a641&challengeSource=AgHO5PSHyIVaJAAAAYnB_huTH72Jq9WCHcvgrEiXolqg4DwUgX2zXchEpmBUbsE&challegeType=AgGx_trrGLUR3gAAAYnB_huXxh8Og4mNfaY5U7u0XqQDNXwd3MkqHxo&memberId=AgHreQY4Diu3tAAAAYnB_hubsoWMuJaLJ_yfhHZ2yNqOV-U&recognizeDevice=AgGY_DTeSInElwAAAYnB_hufpmtm6-hwSr-xE5QHgbrQljycKDrD) Veethika Mishra Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@veethika) GitLab (https://about.gitlab.com/) Pajamas-GitLab Design System (https://design.gitlab.com/) Rory Colgan LinkedIn (https://de.linkedin.com/in/rorycolgan?original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F) CHAOSS Africa (https://github.com/chaoss/Chaoss-Africa) LEUCHTTURM 1917 Journals (https://www.leuchtturm1917.us/notebooks/journals/) Creative Commons (https://creativecommons.org/) Creative Commons Global Network (https://network.creativecommons.org/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Veethika Mishra.

Guests Jan C. Borchardt | Elizabet Oliveira | Peter Hanekamp Panelists Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Victory Brown | Perrie Ojemeh Show Notes Welcome to Sustain Open Source Design, broadcasting live from Penpot Fest in Barcelona, Spain. Today, Eriol, Pia, Victory, and Perrie are hosting, and they have three guests joining them. Our first guest is Jan C. Borchardt, co-founder and design lead at Nextcloud. Jan provides insights into five key strategies for open source design at Nextcloud, highlighting the challenges and rewarding aspects of facilitating easy software user onboarding. The discussion takes us to Jan’s involvement in connecting designers and projects in need of design through a job board, diversity initiatives, and experiences in global conferences. Our next guest is Elizabet Oliveira, Senior Product Designer at Xata, who shares her diverse roles and experiences. She provides insights into design systems and their necessity in startups, and her transition from a developer to a designer. Our final guest, we engage with Peter Hanekamp from Kaleidos, discussing open source strategy. The conversation delves into audience targeting, integration plans for Penpot and Taiga, the benefits of open source for designers, and their strategy for maximizing value creation and facilitating community growth. Hit download to hear more! Jan: [00:01:22] Our first guest is Jan Borchardt, co-founder, and design lead at Nextcloud, a co-founder of open source design, and an active member in open source diversity communities. He tells us about his talk which focused on five essential open source design strategies used at Nextcloud, and he touches on one of the design challenges. [00:02:40] There’s a discussion on the role of designers as strategists, considering design beyond the visual aspect and towards strategy and problem solving. [00:03:53] Jan discusses his involvement in the open source design community, connecting designers and projects in need of design through a job board. [00:05:32] He tells us there are plans for the design community to work on updating the outdated website and provide more value to its users. [00:07:04] Jan also works on a diversity initiative, reaching out to new communities outside the European sphere, He also emphasizes the value of participating in conferences in regions outside Europe and the US, such as FOSSASIA and OSCA FEST to gain new perspectives and ideas. [00:08:57] The discussion moves to the importance of designers attending various events both developer and design focused, to broaden their perspectives and influence. Elizabet: [00:11:57] Our next guest is Elizabet Oliveira, Senior Product Designer at Xata, and she tells us what she does there and her experiences with design and open source. [00:14:03] Eriol brings up design systems, and Elizabet gives insight into her experiences with design systems. She also explains her frustrations with design systems with her role mainly involved with fixing bugs, dealing with feature requests, or updating old components. [00:16:37] Elizabet mentions using Chakra UI and shares her prediction that Xata might either move away from their current design system, Chakra UI, or customize it extensively. [00:19:21] Elizabet emphasizes the importance of exploring variety and creativity as a designer, and she tells us about some personal projects she created, like React Kawaii and Cassette Tape. [00:21:36] Going back to Elizabet’s journey, she started as a developer, creating her music promotion materials, and later transitioned to design because she liked it more. [00:23:20] We hear how Elizabet stays connected with the design community. Peter: [00:27:18] Our final guest is Peter Hanekamp, from Kaleidos, the company that works on Penpot and Tyga. He talks about growth being not just about having a great product but also about the aspects surrounding it. [00:28:59] Eriol brings up the audience for Penpot and Taiga and asks Peter to explain the challenges faced in reaching their target audiences for both these tools. He also talks about the audience for Taiga. [00:30:54] Peter tells us while there are no plans to merge Penpot and Taiga, they’re looking into building integrations between the two. [00:32:19] Peter shares Kaleidos’ journey from a team of developers to including more designers, emphasizing the difficulty of creating a good interaction between these two roles, and he talks about the benefits of open source for designers. [00:34:41] We hear Peter defining growth for Penpot and Kaleidos as getting more users, getting more active users, and getting more people being fanatics of their tools. He shares his personal journey in Kaleidos and their strategy moving forward which involves maximizing value creation and facilitating community growth, which they believe that power user functionality should always be free. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Pia Mancini Twitter (https://twitter.com/piamancini?lang=en) Eriol Fox Twitter (https://twitter.com/EriolDoesDesign?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Perrie Ojemeh Twitter (https://twitter.com/youfoundperrie) Victory Brown Twitter (https://twitter.com/VictoryBrown_) Penpot Fest (https://penpotfest.org/) Jan C. Borchardt Twitter (https://twitter.com/jancborchardt) Jan C. Borchardt Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@jancborchardt) Jan C. Borchardt Website (https://jancborchardt.net/) Nextcloud (https://nextcloud.com/) Elizabet Oliveira Website (https://www.miukimiu.com/) Xata (https://xata.io/) React Kawaii (https://github.com/miukimiu/react-kawaii) Cassette Tape (https://miukimiu.github.io/cassette-tape/) Peter Hanekamp LinkedIn (https://es.linkedin.com/in/peter-hanekamp) Kaleidos (https://kaleidos.net/) Taiga (https://taiga.io/) Penpot (https://penpot.app/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guests: Elizabet Oliveira, Jan C. Borchardt, and Peter Hanekamp.

Guests Dima Davidoff | Madeline Peck | Michal Malewicz Panelists Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Perrie Ojemeh Show Notes Welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! We’re at Penpot Fest in Barcelona, Spain having some insightful conversations. Today, Pia, Eriol, and Perrie are joined by three guests. We start off with Dima Davidoff, a product designer, who shares his experiences working as both a freelancer and full-time. He sheds light on his usage design tools and highlights the potential of open source alternatives like Penpot, emphasizing the importance of trust and community in the design world. Next, we speak with Madeline Peck, the team lead for the Fedora design team at Red Hat. She shares her work with several open source programs, stresses the importance of community involvement and outreach in design, and touches on the necessity of greater diversity and inclusion within open source communities. Finally, we speak with Michal Malewicz, a designer with over two decades of experience who now focuses on teaching. He shares his experience working with different types of companies, the importance of solid fundamental design skills, and emphasizes critical learning for designers. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:19] Our first guest is Dima Davidoff, a Product Designer, who discusses freelancing alongside his full-time job and the differences in design tools used. [00:04:04] Dima shares his frustration with the lack of migration tools from Adobe XD to Figma and questions his trust in the company. [00:05:38] Eriol reflects on the evolution of design tools and emphasizes the importance of community to the development of the tool. Dima advises starting with open source tools for financial reasons and the ability to contribute to the development of the tool, an encourages designers to contribute to open source projects like Penpot. [00:08:57] Dima highlights the importance of user-centered design and the value of open source in listening to user feedback and delivering features promptly. [00:11:32] Our next guest is Madeline Peck, who’s an Associate Interactive Designer at Red Hat and the team lead for the Fedora design team. She mentions using open source programs like Inkscape, Penpot, Blendr, and Krita. [00:12:33] Madeline talks about involving the design community in Fedora and Red Hat’s work and mentions using different social media platforms to spread the word, such as PeerTube, and the importance of sharing tutorials and engaging with social media to reach a wider audience an promote open source. [00:14:58] Madeline discusses moving away from the logo work and focusing on creating brand identity and asset libraires for teams using tools like Penpot. [00:18:00] She talks about the need for more diversity and inclusion efforts in open source, particularly in terms of representation and creating a welcoming environment for marginalized benefits. [00:19:44] Madeline shares her transition from college to working in open source and the benefits of using open source tools like Inkscape, as well as the need for more open source awareness in educational institutions. [00:21:42] Eriol discusses the challenges educational institutions face in adopting open source tools and the potential impact on design education. [00:22:42] Madeline suggests highlighting the cost savings and the sense of community and collaboration in open source as reasons for students to consider using open source tools and expresses interest in cross-platform collaboration in open source. [00:26:32] We welcome our third guest, Michal Malewicz, a Designer for 24+ years, who now focuses on teaching other designers. [00:27:09] Michal discusses his experience working with both small startups and large corporations, preferring startups right now. The agency is run by his wife, and they focus on projects they are passionate about. [00:28:55] We hear a funny story from Michal about how he started teaching by accident after speaking at a conference, and then being asked to teach at a university. [00:30:25] Perrie asks Michal to talk about some challenges he’s had to face, and one is junior designers being focused on trendy tools like Figma and skipping fundamental design skills. [00:33:04] Michal advises designers to follow only a few design influencers and be critical in their learning process. [00:34:44] Michal talks about creating neologisms or hashtags to make design concepts more accessible, and he expresses support for Penpot and their goal of allowing design freedom and self-hosting options. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Penpot Fest (https://penpotfest.org/) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Pia Mancini Twitter (https://twitter.com/piamancini?lang=en) Eriol Fox Twitter (https://twitter.com/EriolDoesDesign?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Perrie Ojemeh Twitter (https://twitter.com/youfoundperrie) Dima Davidoff Twitter (https://twitter.com/dis1gn) Dima Davidoff Website (https://davidoff.work/) Madeline Peck Website (https://www.madelinepeck.com/) Madeline Peck Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/madelineart/?hl=en) Michal Malewicz Website (https://michalmalewicz.com/) Michal Malewicz YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/malewiczhype) Michal Malewicz Twitter (https://twitter.com/michalmalewicz) Penpot Fest (https://penpotfest.org/) PeerTube (https://joinpeertube.org/) Blender (https://www.blender.org/) Blender Beginner Donut Tutorial (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjEaoINr3zgFX8ZsChQVQsuDSjEqdWMAD) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guests: Dima Davidoff, Madeline Peck, and Michal Malewicz.

Guests Iván Martínez | Karl Hütt Panelist Pia Mancini Show Notes iBienvenido a Sustain Open Source Design! La Inteligencia Artificial en Acción: Impulsando el Futuro Empresarial "¿Quieres descubrir cómo la inteligencia artificial está impulsando el futuro del desarrollo de productos y abriendo nuevas oportunidades en el mundo empresarial? Grabado durante el PenPot Festival en Barcelona, en este episodio tenemos el honor de entrevistar a Iván Martínez, CTO de Ontruck, una destacada start-up española a la vanguardia de la innovación, trabajando para reducir las emisiones de CO2 en medio de transporte. Ivan hala de su último proyecto: Private GPT. Una innovadora tecnología similar a ChatGPT, pero que está enfocada en trabajar encima de una gran base de datos, ofreciendo también mayor seguridad de datos y la información privada. Además, Ivan compartirá su visión sobre el poder de la inteligencia artificial en el desarrollo de productos y su convicción de que la comunidad de Open Source es fundamental para impulsar el progreso y el impacto de esta nueva tecnología en la sociedad. ¡No te pierdas esta conversación, únete a nosotros ahora mismo y no perca ningún detalle! Transformando el Futuro: Memri, IA Regenerativa y Privacidad de Datos. ¡Explore como la IA Regenerativa, la aplicación Memri y el control de datos por las grandes compañías impacta el futuro de la industria! Acompáñanos mientras exploramos el proyecto Open Source de Memri, un tipo de asistente personal basado en IA y desarrollado por la empresa de Karl. Además, adentrémonos en el fascinante mundo de la IA Regenerativa y descubramos cómo puede abrir nuevas puertas hacia un futuro más prometedor. Este episodio te brinda una visión única sobre el potencial transformador de la IA y cómo podemos navegar los desafíos de privacidad de datos en un mundo cada vez más conectado. ¡No te pierdas este episodio revelador y cómo podemos dar forma a un mundo mejor a través de la tecnología! Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Pia Mancini Twitter (https://twitter.com/piamancini?lang=en) Iván Martínez Twitter (https://twitter.com/ivanmartit) Iván Martínez Toro LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivan-martinez-toro/) Ontruck (https://www.ontruck.com/en) Karl Hütt Twitter (https://twitter.com/karlhutt) Karl Hütt LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlhutt) Memri LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/memriio?trk=public_profile_topcard-current-company) Karl Hütt Music (Soundcloud) (https://soundcloud.com/karlhutt) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by Julio Serra Julio Serra Studios (https://www.fiverr.com/julioserra/edit-and-make-your-podcast-sound-incredible) Special Guests: Ivan Martínez and Karl Hütt.

Guests Alonso Torres | Máirín Duffy | Martin Owens Panelists Pia Mancini | Eriol Fox | Victory Brown | Perrie Ojemeh Show Notes Welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! In this episode, we are live from Penpot Fest in Barcelona, Spain. Pia, Eriol, Victory, and Perrie are hosting, and they’ll be interviewing three guests. Our guests joining us today are Alonso Torres, a Front-end Developer at Penpot, Máirín Duffy, a Senior Principal Interaction Designer at Red Hat, and Martin Owens, an Independent Free Software Developer at Inkscape. We’ll start with Alonso where we explore the origin of Penpot as a personal innovation project within Kaleidos, and the importance of workflows, community involvement, and Penpot as an alternative to proprietary tools like Figma are highlighted. Then we shift focus to Máirín, where she explains the concept of designing upstream in open source, she shares the benefits of open source tooling, she talks about her current project Podman Desktop, and the evolution of the community design team and how they collaborate with different open source projects. The episode concludes with Martin, who fills us in on being an Independent Developer at Inkscape, he shares his experiment of funding open source development, dives into the influence of companies on open source projects and discusses measuring impact, and the significance of relationships within the open source community. Hit download now! Alonso: [00:01:04] Pia interviews our first guest, Alonso Torres, who shares his role and responsibilities at Penpot and what attracted him to Penpot, and highlights Kaleidos. [00:02:38] Alonso emphasizes that workflows are crucial for Penpot’s team, especially when considering how the tool will be used by distributed teams. [00:04:17] Alonso clarifies that Penpot is not a direct competitor to Figma but rather an open source alternative, and they prioritize features based on community feedback and needs. [00:05:22] The majority of core contributors at Penpot are employed by Kaleidos, and they follow agile methodologies, work collaboratively, and have regular meetings to discuss design handoffs and prioritize features. [00:07:21] Alonso acknowledges that collaboration between designers and developers can be challenging, especially in open source projects. He suggests using tools for effective communication and mentions the need for improvement in this area. [00:08:37] Alonso expresses his excitement about being at the festival and highlights the impressive organization and diverse communities present. Máirín: [00:10:25] Eriol interviews our next guest, Máirín Duffy, who discusses her role at Red Hat and the concept of designing upstream in open source. [00:13:10] Máirín explains the concepts of upstream and patching in open source, using analogies and examples to make them more accessible to designers unfamiliar with the terminology. [00:16:22] We hear about the evolution of the community design team and how they expanded their services to collaborate with different open source projects, fostering user-centered design and bridging gaps between projects that might be competitors in a company context. [00:18:51] Máirín shares an example of collaboration between Podman and Podman Desktop teams at Red Hat, highlighting the value of bringing end-user use cases and perspectives to the development process and how it benefits both teams. [00:21:48] Máirín advises designers not to worry about dogma and encourages them to be open to the practical reasons for adopting open source tools. [00:24:06] What’s been the highlight of Penpot for Máirín? She mentions Martin Owen’s talk on the SVG standard and the proposal for a separate editable SVG standard. Martin: [00:26:02] Victory and Perrie interview our third guest, Martin Owen, an Independent Inkscape Developer, and a free software advocate. He shares his interest in finding practical solutions that enable freedom in software development without compromising the path to achieving it and explains an experiment he’s been running. [00:26:50] He explains his experiment of not taking private proprietary software contracts but instead seeking direct funding from designers and users of Inkscape. Martin discusses how companies that pay for open source software development have a significant influence on feature choices and decisions. [00:29:23] Martin explains his three main groups of clients. [00:30:43] Martin addresses the challenge of prioritizing user requests. [00:32:26] Victory asks Martin to highlight any lesser known Inkscape features, and he mentions exploring the extensions and python-based functionalities and watching video tutorials on YouTube. [00:33:34] Martin mentions that tracking metrics is not a priority for the Inkscape project, but he gauges impact through millions of downloads, positive feedback, and seeing the artwork created by users. [00:34:26] If you’re interested in looking at Martin’s work you can go to his YouTube account for videos and you can help fund his work on Patreon. [00:34:53] Martin emphasizes the importance of relationships within the open source community and suggests that developers form connections with non-programmers to better understand their needs and the impact of their work. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Pia Mancini Twitter (https://twitter.com/piamancini?lang=en) Eriol Fox Twitter (https://twitter.com/EriolDoesDesign?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Victory Brown Twitter (https://twitter.com/VictoryBrown_) Perrie Ojemeh Twitter (https://twitter.com/youfoundperrie) Alonso Torres Twitter (https://twitter.com/alotor?lang=en) Alonso Torres LinkedIn (https://es.linkedin.com/in/alonso-javier-torres-ortiz-15377b5) Máirín Duffy Twitter (https://twitter.com/mairin) Máirín Duffy Blog (https://blog.linuxgrrl.com/) Martin Owens Fosstodon (https://fosstodon.org/@doctormo) Martin Owens YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/c/MartinOwens) Martin Owens Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/doctormo) Penpot Fest (https://penpotfest.org/) Penpot (https://penpot.app/) Podman Desktop (https://podman-desktop.io/) Inkscape (https://inkscape.org/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guests: Alonso Torres, Máirín Duffy, and Martin Owens.

Panelists Eriol Fox | Katie Wilson | Meag Doherty Show Notes Welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! In this second part of a series of podcasts about the user work, Eriol is joined by Katie Wilson and Meag Doherty to discuss their project, Superbloom, which delves into design and usability in scientific and research open source software. Today, they shed light into the ideal user type of open source software tools, the focus on software maintainability in design, and how software complexity plays into its perceived value in decision-making, and how it may impact the progress of open science. They also discuss the necessity of usability in decision-making, and how it may impact the progress of open science, and they highlight their experiences at various events and initiatives that underscore the importance of continuing conversations around these topics. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:14] Katie Wilson, a Design Researcher at Superbloom and Meag Doherty, the Deputy Chief User Experience Officer at the All of Us Research Program, introduce themselves and we’ll hear what their relationship is to the project. [00:04:17] Eriol introduces the topic of end users and discusses the discovery that most open source software tools, including those in scientific and research domains, seem to have an ideal user type with particular skills and capabilities. [00:07:05] Katie continues the conversation, mentioning that when asked about design, many open source software projects focus on making the software as maintainable and contributable as possible, thus often perceiving the users as fellow programmers or contributors. [00:09:25] Eriol shares one last thought on the usability chapter and comments on how complexity in scientific and research open source software could be viewed as a safety aspect that validates their relevance in the field. [00:11:30] Meag segues to the potential impact of these findings. She emphasizes that usability is not an afterthought but central to the decision-making process, and poor usability could hinder the progress of open science. [00:12:59] Katie addresses UX best practices in the context of scientific software, suggesting that the tool’s complexity might dictate its user experience. [00:14:52] Eriol talks about accessibility. They explain that designers view accessibility from a different perspective that scientists or researchers in the open source software space. However, for non-designers, accessibility is understood, as broadening the tool’s application and potential discovery of science and research. [00:19:21] The conversation shifts to Meag talking about incentives, particularly within university settings and academic groups. She stresses the importance of understanding incentives and looking for windows of opportunity to implement usability improvements. [00:20:13] Eriol describes some work done by their colleagues, who created a series of informative zines distilling complex research findings into six-page summaries. [00:22:50] Katie discusses an ecosystem map they developed to visualize interconnected projects, institutions, and contributors within the scientific and research open-source software space. [00:24:15] Meag talks about a trip to an open source science retreat in Germany where the focus was on the usability of software used by research software engineers daily. She also mentions more of their work was shared at the Software Sustainability Institute’s Collaboration Workshop and at JupyterCon 2023 in Paris. [00:27:24] Eriol affirms the importance of welcoming new people into the space to sustain and improve usability design, highlighting the need to include people from the peripheries of science, research, and open source. Spotlight [00:29:21] Eriol’s spotlight is a project funded by the Vermont Complex Systems that was a series of weekly designer diary studies that designers did over 10 weeks that they coordinated at Superbloom. [00:30:25] Meag’s spotlight is The White House Office of Science and Technology Policy that has taken big steps to do listening sessions. [00:31:08] Katie’s spotlight is the project, AutSPACEs, a platform where autistic people can report their experiences on sensory processing differences in everyday life. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Eriol Fox Twitter (https://twitter.com/EriolDoesDesign?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Katie Wilson LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/katie-wilson-283491114) Meag Doherty Twitter (https://twitter.com/EmDohh) Superbloom (https://simplysecure.org/blog/introducing-superbloom/) Superbloom Twitter (https://twitter.com/sprblm_) All Of Us Research Program (https://www.joinallofus.org/) “Research software engineering accelerates the translation of biomedical research for health”-Nature Medicine article (June 1, 2023) (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02353-0) Diary-Studies-Designers-in-OSS (https://github.com/simplysecure/Diary-Studies-Designers-in-OSS) JupyterCon 2023 (https://www.jupytercon.com/) Software Sustainability Institute Collaborations Workshop 2023 (https://www.software.ac.uk/cw23) Vermont Complex Systems Center (https://vermontcomplexsystems.org/) The White House-Office of Science and Technology Policy-Events & Webinars (https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/events-webinars/) AutSPACEs (https://github.com/alan-turing-institute/AutSPACEs) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/)

Guest Isaac Sixtus Chizaram (Isaac Zara) Panelists Richard Littauer | Django Skorupa Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source with design. Learn how we, as designers, interface with open source in a sustainable way, how we integrate into different communities, and how we as coders, work with other designers. Our guest today is Isaac Zara, an open source enthusiast who works at Flipside as a brand designer. Isaac shares his journey into open source, his work as a brand experience designer, his experience mentoring designers in open source projects, and his design philosophy. He also gives us a glimpse of what’s next for him which includes personal branding projects and how he plans to integrate storytelling into brand designs. Hit download to learn much more! [00:02:51] Isaac tells us why he considers himself a designer first, a human second, and an open source designer third. [00:03:35] We hear Isaac’s journey through open source and how he got started. [00:06:00] Isaac was on the design committee for Drupal, and we find out what he designed for them. [00:07:34] At Flipside, Isaac works as a brand designer, building the brand identity and making the visual assets cohesive across all marketing channels. [00:08:54] We learn about the community being quite different in the Web3 space, using VLC, and how he feels we need more people with this open source beauty mentality in Web3. [00:10:57] Isaac emphasizes the importance of building a brand system that will stand the test of time, which involves developing an identity that is timeless and consistent with the brand’s values. Also, he notes that open source projects can only stand the test of time with the support of a community and a process that makes it easier for people to take over where the designer leaves off. [00:14:21] As a brand designer, he talks about the importance of creating brand guidelines for open source projects to maintain consistency in visual design and recommends making the brand guidelines accessible to everyone involved in the project. [00:16:20] Isaac discusses the role of design in attracting new users and contributors to open source projects. [00:18:32] We hear the role of design in attracting new users and contributors to open source projects. [00:22:25] Isaac explains the way to sell a product is by communicating the value to people out there and the importance of creating a visually appealing pitch to investors. He also brings up CHAOSS, CHAOSS Africa, and Ruth Ikegah. [00:26:42] While Isaac hasn’t specifically worked on open source projects looking for financial contributions, he notes that it’s important to make funding accessible and easy to navigate on the project’s website to encourage financial support. [00:28:14] We hear about his experience mentoring others in open source projects and his approach to design. [00:29:02] What’s hard for Isaac about design in open source? [00:31:11] We hear what’s next for Isaac, such as his personal branding projects and how he wants to incorporate storytelling into his brand designs. [00:32:09] Find out where you can follow Isaac on the web. Quotes [00:03:09] “What gave me the privilege to contribute to open source because I had a design skill.” [00:14:30] “Devs call it documentation, we call it brand guidelines.” [00:17:04] “It’s hard to create something that will be cohesive if there’s no guide. Just imagine when you walk into an open forest without a compass.” [00:21:07] “It can be hard to translate your greatness you have within you, if they’re not seeing you speak visually.” [00:22:45] “As a brand designer, I see myself as a value maker, as an innovator.” Spotlight [00:33:02] Django’s spotlight is two mentors, Ruth Ikegah and Eriol Fox. [00:33:58] Richard’s spotlight is a colleague, Chihurumnaya Ibiam. [00:35:00] Isaac’s spotlight is Rachel Lawson. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Django Skorupa Twitter (https://twitter.com/djangoskorupa) Isaac Sixtus Chizaram LinkedIn (https://ng.linkedin.com/in/isaac-sixtus-chizaram-41220a171) Isaac Zara Twitter (https://twitter.com/isaaczara_?lang=en) Flipside (https://flipsidecrypto.xyz/) OSCAfrica 2023 Lagos, Nigeria (https://festival.oscafrica.org/) CHAOSS Africa (https://chaoss.community/kb/chaoss-africa/) CHAOSS (https://chaoss.community/) Jean-Baptiste Kempf LinkedIn (https://fr.linkedin.com/in/jbkempf) Ruth Ikegah LinkedIn (https://ng.linkedin.com/in/ruth-ikegah) Eriol Fox LinkedIn (https://uk.linkedin.com/in/eriolfox) Rachel Lawson-Drupal (https://www.drupal.org/u/rachel_norfolk) Rachel Lawson Website (https://rachelnorfolk.me/) Chihurumnaya Ibiam LinkedIn (https://ng.linkedin.com/in/chihurumnaya-ibiam) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Isaac Sixtus Chizaram.

Guest Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Panelists Memo Esparza | Perrie Ojemeh | Django Skorupa Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source with design. Learn how we, as designers, interface with open source in a sustainable way, how we integrate into different communities, and how we as coders, work with other designers. We’re excited to have as our guest, Pablo Ruiz Múzquiz, CEO of Kaleidos, and creator of Penpot and Taiga. Today, Pablo dives into the challenges of leading a creative business in the open source world, focusing on the need for a perfect open source product, an engaged community, and a sustainable business model. He sheds light on the collaborative and contribution-based model at Kaleidos. Also, there’s a conversation about the future of Penpot and its community, and Pablo shares insights about the upcoming Penpot Fest in Barcelona, and he mentions some upcoming features for Penpot. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:01:36] Pablo tells us how it is to lead a company like Kaleidos. [00:03:47] He highlights the importance of autonomy and co-ownership within teams. [00:06:07] Pablo describes the collaborative and contribution-based model at Kaleidos. He touches on the evolution of the company’s culture, strong opinions, relevant consensus, and the continuous process of redefining themselves. [00:09:18] In regard to challenges he faced building Penpot, Pablo emphasizes not taking shortcuts and staying true to their values, using accessibility as an example. He also tells us they explore the cultural aspects of Kaleidos, the privilege they enjoy in taking risks, and the commitment to their principles and values. [00:12:21] There’s a conversation on the work that goes into achieving accessibility in Pablo’s design tool, Taiga. [00:15:00] Memo wonders what’s next for Penpot and Taiga, and Pablo mentions the upcoming Penpot Fest in Barcelona, where open source communities will join forces to discuss the future design and development using open source and open standards. He also talks about the upcoming features for Penpot, as well as the integration of Taiga into Penpot. [00:20:23] Pablo highlights the significance of versioning and sharing knowledge with the open source mindset. [00:22:35] Pablo acknowledges the challenges of balancing abundant content and true accessibility and emphasizes the need for powerful design that empowers designers, and he shares what it takes to be a designer. [00:28:11] He expresses the importance of cracking the relationship between designers and developers to grow the Penpot community organically, with the ultimate goal of having a strong user base and active contributors. Quotes [00:04:17] “When people work together and are generous with their talent and time, great things happen, open source is just one of those implementations.” [00:09:52] “The toughest thing to do is not taking shortcuts.” [00:13:19] “This is not an afterthought, this is not a patch, this is part of a better product.” [00:14:47] “Look for where there are no incentives, and you’ll probably find a better product to build.” [00:24:07] “Design is where technology meets society.” Spotlight [00:33:03] Memo’s spotlight is Excalidraw. [00:33:34] Django’s spotlight is the project Open5e. [00:34:46] Peace’s spotlight is OSCAFEST 2023. [00:35:47] Pablo’s spotlight is Svelte. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Memo Esparza Twitter (https://twitter.com/memo_es_) Perrie Ojemeh Twitter (https://twitter.com/youfoundperrie) Django Skorupa Twitter (https://twitter.com/djangoskorupa) Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz LinkedIn (https://es.linkedin.com/in/pruizmuzquiz) Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz Website (https://elenya.net/) Pablo Ruiz Múzquiz Twitter (https://twitter.com/diacritica) Kaleidos (https://kaleidos.net/) Penpot (https://penpot.app/) Taiga (https://www.taiga.io/) Penpot Fest 2023 (https://community.penpot.app/t/penpot-fest-2023-barcelona-june-28-30-our-plans-for-a-wonderful-community-event/2923) Excalidraw (https://excalidraw.com/) Open5e (https://github.com/open5e/open5e) OSCAFEST 2023 (https://festival.oscafrica.org/) Svelte (https://svelte.dev/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz.

Guest Mike Gifford Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain Open Source Design! The podcast where we talk about sustaining open source with design. Learn how we, as designers, interface with open source in a sustainable way, how we integrate into different communities, and how we as coders, work with other designers. Today, Richard is super excited to have as his guest, Mike Gifford, who’s a Senior Strategist at CivicActions and a thought leader on digital accessibility and the public sector. He was the Founder and President of OpenConcept Consulting, which worked extensively with Drupal, and he became a Drupal 8 Core Accessibility Maintainer in 2012. As a long-term environmentalist, Mike has found ways to integrate his passions for the web and planet. Today, Mike talks about his views on sustainability, his work with open source software, and the importance of accessibility and multilingualism in technology. Download this episode now to hear more! [00:02:18] Mike shares his views on sustainability, and he tells us he’s been working fully with CivicActions for the last two years after closing OpenConcept Consulting. [00:04:18] We learn about CivicActions, a web development firm that does a lot of work with both open source and Drupal, as well as HCD. They primarily work in the government space, largely focused on the US government. [00:05:15] Mike tells us about the Canadian Open Source Advisory Board that he runs. [00:06:21] We find out the differences between the Canadian and US government’s approach to open source software. [00:08:13] How does Mike see himself as a designer in all these conversations? He talks about the work he does with the Drupal community to make Drupal more accessible. [00:09:35] Mike explains where oral design interfaces mix with open source and he mentions Preston So from the Drupal community, who wrote the book, Voice Content and Usability. [00:11:11] We hear about the groups of people who are looking at accessibility. [00:13:38] There’s some great tools that are useful when talking about the disability spectrum, such as Accessibility Insights, which is a Microsoft tool, and an accessibility engine called, axe, which was built by Deque. [00:15:41] Mike talks about the multilingual accessibility being a challenge in technology, and the challenges of identifying language content and tools, especially in open source software, and the predominance of English in accessibility resources. [00:18:02] We hear about the open source work Mike’s doing with CivicActions, a project he was involved in creating called, OpenACR, and the need for procurement to include accessibility requirements. [00:20:52] He highlights the responsibility of open source maintainers to set an example of accessibility best practices. [00:22:39] How does Mike think ChatGPT is going influence accessibility practices? He emphasizes the responsibility of humans to evaluate and implement accessible code. [00:26:00] Richard and Mike discuss the importance of building accessibility into the workflow of teams and developers. Accessibility is not just for those with disabilities but for everyone since abilities can impact all of us at one point. [00:30:58] Mike tells us where you can find him on the web. Quotes [00:02:33] “Sustainability is a word that is too loose and can be applied to many things much like accessibility.” [00:13:51] “It’s about trying to remember that this is about progress, not perfection.” [00:21:07] “I think there’s a huge responsibility for open source maintainers to set an example.” [00:21:35] “If you provide examples in your code that aren’t following accessibility best practices, then you’re propagating that.” [00:29:16] “Accessibility doesn’t just affect a small number of people; it affects all of us at one point or another because we’re human.” Spotlight [00:31:43] Richard’s spotlight is his neighbor, Susan Reid, and The Kitchen Table Poems that she writes. [00:32:23] Mike’s spotlight is CO2.js, a project from The Green Web Foundation. Links Open Source Design Twitter (https://twitter.com/opensrcdesign) Open Source Design (https://opensourcedesign.net/) Sustain Design & UX working group (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/t/design-ux-working-group/348) SustainOSS Discourse (https://discourse.sustainoss.org/) Sustain Open Source Twitter (https://twitter.com/sustainoss?lang=en) Richard Littauer Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@richlitt) Richard Littauer Twitter (https://twitter.com/richlitt?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor) Mike Gifford LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mgifford/) Mike Gifford Twitter (https://twitter.com/mgifford) Mike Gifford Mastodon (https://mastodon.social/@mgifford) CivicActions Accessibility (https://civicactions.com/) CivicActions (https://civicactions.com/) Preston So (Books) (https://preston.so/) Accessibility Insights (https://accessibilityinsights.io/) OpenACR (https://github.com/GSA/openacr) Axe tools-Deque (https://www.deque.com/axe/) The Kitchen Table Poems by Susan Reid (https://tinyletter.com/poems-tunes) The Green Web Foundation-CO2.js (https://github.com/thegreenwebfoundation/co2.js/) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Mike Gifford.