Unframed Podcast

This episode is the first of a series of 4 talks that were recorded at Turbine Art Fair 2019.
Title: "It was Given to me to Give to You: Art collecting & inter-generational wealth creation"
Panel discussion with Jack Ginsberg (Ampersand Foundation), Sean Meyersfeld (investment specialist) and Dr Alastair Meredith (Senior Art Specialist: Strauss & Co)
In this panel, art’s potential as a form of wealth creation and legacy building will be explored. Investment specialists and collectors will discuss how establishing an art collection can be an integral part of a robust investment portfolio. (source: TAF website)
The talks programme was curated by Kefiloe Siwisa and Nomvoyu Horwitz. Thanks to them and Turbine Art Fair for allowing us to record and host this panel discussion on Unframed.

Welcome back to Unframed - a podcast which hosts talks and conversations about South African art and artists. I am your host Anthea Pokroy. You may have noticed a very large gap between this and the last episode. I was finishing off my Masters in Fine Art and so, unfortunately, had to focus all my energy on that. But Unframed is now back and we are looking forward to the program that is to follow in the coming months!
In this episode, I am excited to be in conversation with Mandla Sibeko, the new owner and director of Art Joburg which is a new incarnation of the iconic Joburg Art Fair. This rebranded and revisioned art fair will take place in a few weeks from 13-15 September at Sandton Convention Centre.
In this interview, Mandla explains to me this shift from the old to the new, and the reasons behind it; what this new art fair will consist of - what we as visitors can expect to see and experience at the fair; the role of this and other art fairs in Joburg, South Africa and internationally in the broader art ecosystem.
Be sure to clear your calendars between 13-15 September for Art Joburg and its affiliated Gallery Weekend, as well as for Latitudes Art Fair and The Underline Show happening the same weekend. Check out their websites and social media for more info on very exciting showcases of South African art:
Art Joburg: https://artjoburg.com/
Latitudes Art Fair: https://latitudesartfair.com/
The Underline Show: https://underlineprojects.art/
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on Art Joburg and the other fairs happening at this time? Please feel free to comment on the post for this episode on Facebook (https://facebook.com/unframedpodcast) and Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/unframedpodcast/).
Dont forget to subscribe to Unframed Podcast on iTunes (https://itunes.apple.com/za/podcast/unframed) and instantly receive new episodes as they are released
Giving a review would be awesome too please!
Thanks for joining me, until next time!

In today’s episode I interview lawyer Eitan Stern from Legalese about artist copyright and other legal aspects that artists should consider in making work and in their careers. My intial interest in chatting with Eitan arose from an incident that occurred at the Joburg Art Fair this September 2018, where South African photographer Graeme Williams accused American artist Hank Willis Thomas of using William's photograph in Willis’ own artwork without his permission. Read more about it and see the images here:
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/sep/13/graeme-williams-hank-willis-thomas-photograph
We use this case to discuss further issues of artist copyright and what artists should be considering when using other people’s images in their own artwork. We also explore the rights of photographers, as well as the business of arts. Eitan encourages artists to be professional by using contracts and to take the initiative to understand fully every transaction that is made. This episode is really insightful especially for emerging artists and photographers.
Contact Legalese here: https://legalese.co.za/#contact-us-section
Read the article on How Not To Get Sued for Your Photography here: https://10and5.com/2018/09/25/not-get-sued-photography/
Sign up as a member with VANSA here: https://vansa.co.za/membership/

This episode is part of of the "Talk” component of Unframed, as opposed to the “Interview” which is an interview directly with your host Anthea Pokroy. The “Talk” component features art dialogues, talks and panel discussions that happen around the country outside of this podcast, but where we are lucky enough to add the content to this platform for many to hear. I was fortunate to attend this one in September 2018, between artists William Kentridge and Yinka Shonibare. Shonibare, a British-Nigerian artist based in the UK, came to South Africa in September for the opening of his exhibition at the Goodman Gallery. As part of the Centre for the Less Good Idea’s Once Off program, Kentridge hosted Shonibare for a conversation between the two prolific artists. Thank you so much to the Centre, the Goodman Gallery and the FNB Art Fair for allowing the recording of this dynamic conversation to be aired on Unframed. Enjoy listening to William Kentridge and Yinka Shonibare in dialogue about their art practices

In this 8th episode, we speak to artist Brownyn Lace about her current exhibition, Mirror Mirror, showing at Everard Read Gallery in Johannesburg until 6 October 2018. We chat about this show and how it is to work with a big gallery, as well as her many different roles in the industry including that of animateur for The Centre for the Less Good Idea. She talks about her process, studio practice, the importance of working in a community and being part of the “bigger picture”, and the value of creating relationships in the industry.

In this 7th episode of Unframed, we speak about the Joburg Art Fair which just took place last weekend, 7-9 September 2018. I’m not going to lie this is the event of the year for me, I really enjoy seeing all the people in the art world, and its a good survey of work that is happening in South Africa, and bits of other African countries, albeit a very specific sector of the market. I think it is important to reflect on this event critically whilst acknowledging its benefits to the industry. I have invited arts writer, curator and consultant, Mary Corrigall to join me in a discussion around this year’s fair, the role of the art fair in the broader arts landscape, and I chat to her about her research report which surveys the contemporary arts in Africa, which can be found here: https://www.corrigall.org/art-reports
Enjoy listening to my conversation with Mary Corrigall.

Today’s 6th episode is a special one - it is a tribute to the legendary South African photography David Goldblatt, who died recently in June 2018 at the age of 87. I chat to Neil Dundas, long time friend and the senior curator of the Goodman Gallery, where David has showed his work since the 90s. We reflect on the life and work of Goldblatt - an internationally renowned photographer who gained recognition for his work during the apartheid era, but who has continued to take photos until the weeks leading up to his death. We talk about his work, his personality, his resistance to being called an “artist”, despite his abundant and invaluable contributions to the South African arts industry. The exhibition we refer to in the episode has just taken place at the Goodman Gallery in Johannesburg - it is called “On Common Ground: David Goldblatt and Peter Magubane” curated by Paul Weinberg. It sets up a dialogue between these two photographers work - which document the same period in South African history from vastly different perspectives. Enjoy listening to this episode - a tribute to David Goldblatt.

Alex and Sisipho have just been appointed new directors at Stevenson Gallery. We talk about their new positions, the exhibition they have curated at both the Joburg and Cape Town galleries called 'Both, And' (on until 24 August 2018), what it means to be represented by the gallery, Alex's famous artist parents Colin Richards and Penny Siopis, and Sisipho's own art practice and with her collective iQhiya.

In this fourth episode, I chat to writer and art critic Matthew Blackman, who is based in Cape Town, over Skype. My initial interest in interviewing Matthew at this time, is that he has been the leading journalist in the recent Zeitz Mocca controversy. We chat about this, and his initial scepticism regarding the museum. We also talk about the South African art industry, his concerns about the market driving artists into producing more commercial work, the Venice Biennale controversy of 2011, and about his own personal writing. I have placed a link to Matthew’s website, as well as link to many of the articles Matthew has written about the South African arts industry.
https://matthewblackman.com/
https://artthrob.co.za/article-author/matthew-blackman/

In this third episode, I interviewed Ayanda Mabulu about his current exhibition, his practice, his spirituality and his politics, and really gained insight into why he makes the seemingly controversial work that he makes.
It was a really interesting and provocative conversation. Ayanda is a storyteller and, in between the swearing, he speaks passionately, critically, and poetically. I know that what he says some people will love and some people will hate, but I’m really interested to hear your response to it. We spoke for almost 2 hours, so this is an edited version of it. If you can you should definitely try see Ayanda’s show before it closes. Its at Kalashnikovv Gallery in Braamfontein until 2 July 2018. I’m still trying to get into a rhythm with releasing the interviews so it doesn’t leave you too much time, but otherwise you can find a lot of his work online. Just a warning that this episode contains a lot of profanities and language that may be offensive. But otherwise, please enjoy listening to my chat with Ayanda.