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My guest today is Becky Burleigh, the head soccer coach at the University of Florida. She’s also the co-founder of What Drives Winning, which unites the top minds in sports. In 25 years at Florida, she has led UF to a NCAA Championship, two NCAA College Cup appearances, 14 Southeastern Conference titles and 22 NCAA Championships berths. She has 507 total wins, putting her third all-time in Division-1 soccer.

In this episode, we discuss what it was like to get the UF soccer program started in 1995 and winning a national title a few years later with stars like Abby Wombach. We talk about how she focuses on not just developing the player but developing the athlete as a person. Then we dive into how meeting Brett Ledbetter led her to team up with him and start What Drives Winning. There aren’t many coaches who are better to listen to from if you want to learn about how to help your players become better people.

Show Notes:

(1:35) - Why she started DJ’ing

(3:30) - Early years growing up in Tarpon Springs, FL

(6:00) - Starting the UF soccer program at the age of 26

(10:10) - Importance of having her parents support in her career

(11:14) - When she decided to have a personal Board of Directors

(13:10) - Winning a national title in the third year at UF

(14:45) - Coaching Abby Wombach

(16:10) - Striving to win another national title

(17:17) - Focusing on personal development as much as player development

(19:30) - Meeting Brett Ledbetter and then launching What Drives Winning

(23:52) - What she’s learned from former UF & current Chicago Bulls head coach, Billy Donovan

(25:30) - What she’s learned from Cal Berkley head coach, Jack Clark

(26:00) - The future of What Drives Winning

(27:40) - Her typical schedule and balancing coaching and What Drives Winning

(29:58) - Evolving as a coach over time

(31:15) - The three team values: courage, team-first, and growth

(34:15) - What she would tell herself if she could go back to her first day coaching at Florida

(34:40) - Focusing on personal growth

(35:45) - What she’s learned from Dr. Jim Loehr

(37:00) - Lessons for other coaches based on her starting and finishing a season in 2020 amid COVID

(40:15) - Favorite moment(s) of her career: alumni weekends

(41:20) - End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• The Power of Full Engagement: Managing Energy, Not Time, Is the Key to High Performance and Personal Renewal by Jim Loehr

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Nick Saban

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Everything!

4.    What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• Coaching is easy

5.    What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• “Comparison is the thief of joy.”

6.    What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• When one of her players took her own life after graduating from UF.

Favorite Quotes:

“Here at the University of Florida, it’s always got to be in the conversation, right? I mean, people don’t come to Florida to not compete for national championships. So, I think every year the goal is the same if you’re an athlete at Florida, pretty much in every sport. I think the bigger question is just like, what are we doing and how are we developing in terms of that path to get there?”

“And that quote is, “Who are you becoming as a result of the chase?” And I think that’s a really important question because we’re all going to strive really hard for our goals. But in the end, sometimes we’re going to hit them and sometimes we’re not, but who we are becoming is a constant.

“I feel like everybody has to run their own race when it comes to your career and what you’re doing. And as soon as you start to look at something someone else has, then what you’re doing becomes diminished.”

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My guest today is Anson Dorrance, UNC Women’s Soccer Head Coach. He has won 22 National Championships and is the first coach in NCAA history to win 20 championships coaching a single sport. That is correct - 22 national titles. And as impressive as that is, his approach to coaching, competitiveness, and character development of his girls is even more impressive.

In this episode, we discuss why he doesn’t think you can teach leadership, why he thinks it’s so important to take personal ownership of your own outcome and learn to handle adversity, and how recruiting has evolved over the years. He also talks about his relationship with coaches outside of women’s soccer, including Dean Smith, Pete Carroll, and Terry Liskevych.

Show Notes:

(1:25) - Why he doesn’t believe you can teach leadership

(10:40) - The impact the helicopter parent has on children now

(15:20) - How recruiting has been effected by this change

(22:55) - His core values for his program

(24:25) - His focus on competitiveness and the competitive cauldron

(31:25) - How he became good friends with Pete Carroll

(40:39) - The importance of personal development

(46:30) - The core values he has for the program and how he’s matured as a coach over his career

(56:50) - How he approaches character development and winning

(1:01:25) - End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• The Man Watching: Anson Dorrance and the University of North Carolina Women's Soccer Dynasty

• Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

• This is Water by David Foster Wallace

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Marcelo Bielsa - Manager of Leeds United

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Construct a strategy to fit his roster this coming year, which has no seniors left

4.     What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Be a continuous learner and pick a mentor that is in an environment similar to yours

5.     What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• He was sued by a former player and her parent and was really criticized by the media.

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My guest today is Travis Wyckoff, founder of Kingdom Coaching, a consulting business for coaches to help provide the tools, strategies, and skills you need to transform how you lead yourself, lead others, and win in all areas. He also hosts the podcast called Coaching DNA, which I was recently a guest on. Previously, he coached college baseball for 11 years and spent six years leading on a church staff.

In this episode, we discuss the transition from coaching college baseball to starting Kingdom Coaching. He explains the different ways he works with coaches, whether it is one-on-one coaching, staff coaching, Tribe Membership, or cohorts. We spend a lot of time around leadership, a topic he is incredibly passionate about. After his time spent working with some of the top coaches, like Tim Corbin and Anson Dorrance, he distills a great leader down to character, emotional intelligence, clarity, psychological makeup.

Where to connect with Travis: Website | Twitter | Podcast or email him at [email protected]

Resources Discussed:

Coaching DNA Podcast with Rodney Hobbs

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• InSideOut Coaching: How Sports Can Transform Lives by Joe Ehrmann

• Behind the Bench: Inside the Minds of Hockey's Greatest Coaches by Craig Custance

• Super Thinking: The Big Book of Mental Models by Gabriel Weinberg and Lauren McCann

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Dabo Swinney

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Be more present with others

4.    What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• Be yourself – no, be the best version of yourself

5.    What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Be a continuous learner

6.    What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• One season while coaching was really hard with poor pitching and tough to handle as the team went through it. He overcame it via grit.

Favorite Quote:

“John Maxwell talks a ton about: your leadership ability will determine the lid on, in my case the people I'm working with, it'll determine the lid of your program. So if your leadership is growing, if you're a really excellent leader, your program is going to rise. If not, you will put the lid on your program based on what your leadership capacity is.”

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My guest today is Ethan Kross, one of the world’s leading experts on controlling the conscious mind. He’s currently a professor at the University of Michigan, where he founded the Emotion & Self Control Laboratory. He’s also the author of Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It, which is the focus of our conversation today.

In this episode, we learn about what coaches can do to help reframe the negative self-talk we have with ourselves and help our players do the same. Ethan walks us through examples of how he would handle different situations, including coaching a player who is reluctant to take advice, helping a player deal with negative self talk when enduring a slump, or why he would encourage players to have routines like tennis great Rafael Nadal.

From time to time I am going to have others co-host episodes with me and today I’m joined by Oliver Winterbone. Oliver is the Director of Coaches and Executives at Wasserman, one of the premiere talent management companies in the world. He previously spent five seasons in the front office of the Oklahoma City Thunder in various roles, most recently as Director of Player Development. Before that he worked for the University of Florida Basketball program from 2010-14 which is when we got to know each other.

Show Notes:

(1:28) - Episode begins with a story of Rick Ankiel

(6:12) - Ethan gives an overview of topics he covers in the book and what ‘chatter’ is

(10:30) - Ethan explains the three buckets of tools to help coaches handle negative self-talk or help players handle negative-self talk

(12:59) - Ethan explains how to use distanced self-talk

(16:09) - Best practices to coach a player experiencing anxiety while playing

(19:55) - The benefits of rituals

(24:55) - How rituals performed as a group help shrink the sense of self and make us feel part of something bigger than ourselves

(25:25) - How coaches should advise players to use rituals for their advantage

(28:20) - Why it’s important to have a chatter “Board of Advisors” and choose who you go to for help and support carefully

(32:20) - How coaches can help address both the emotion and cognitive parts of someone’s problem

(35:15) - How social media contributes to our negative self-talk and advice on handling the upside and downside of social media

(45:30) - How to give unsolicited advice or coach a player who isn’t receptive to listening to you

(48:38) - How ‘touch’ helps us work through difficult times

(54:55) - How experiencing the emotion of ‘awe’ can help us handle chatter and feel part of something bigger

(58:00) - How to learn to treat ourselves kinder (mentions Tim Ferriss’ podcast with Jim Loehr)

(1:01:25) - Advice for parents to encourage positive behaviors around chater

(1:05:31) - End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth

• Mindset: The New Psychology of Success by Carol Dweck

• Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking by Susan Cain

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Jim Harbaugh

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Spend more time with his children

4.    What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• Vent about your problems

5.    What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Be cognizant of the power of the mind can have on performance

6.    What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• He received a threatening letter about work he published. He used his chatter toolbox to overcome it

Favorite Quotes:

“We don't want to rid ourselves of negativity. What we want to do is prevent the negative thoughts from morphing into the chatter, into the negative cycle of thinking and feeling that's unproductive and never ends.”

“Rituals, we often do them with, especially in the sports context, with other other players and coaches, and they have a broader meaning, right? There's this strength, this significance. It's not about just me. It's about all of us together and when it's about the team, not just me, that makes our own concerns feel a little bit smaller. So there's a shrinking of the self that occurs when we engage in these kinds of collective rituals that are very prevalent in sports.”

“And so what I tell people is to be really deliberate about who you choose to go to for chatter support. Like, I think really carefully about this in my own life. There are lots of people who I love very much and who love me who I don't go to for help because I know they're just going to make it worse or they're not going to help. And so there are other people that I consistently go to for support and they help. So I like to think of this as you’re building a board of advisors for help in different domains that you might need it.”

“When an athlete engages in a structured ritual, that gives them a sense of control. They're putting things in a particular place, they're creating order. And that provides us with a sense of order that can be alleviating.”

“Look, negative self-talk on its own isn't a bad thing. Like, it's, I think, a good thing to be able to review your life and review the negative things so you can learn from them.”

“You know, you'll see LeBron James, there was a an incident ten years ago (“The Decision”) where he's facing a really tough decision. He says, “All right, I don't want to make an emotional decision, LeBron James got to do what is best for LeBron James.” Or you see Tiger Woods coaching himself through a difficult stroke using his name. And so a lot of people stumble on this technique, I think without really understanding how it works. We've now I figured out how it works and it's something that we can coach other people to use.”

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My guest today is Coby Karl, head coach for the South Bay Lakers of the NBA G League. He played professionally in the NBA for multiple teams, including for Phil Jackson and the Lakers, and overseas.

In this episode, we discuss what it was like to grow up the son of former NBA Head Coach George Karl and the lessons he learned being around the game at a young age. Then we dive into his transition from a player to a coach with the Knicks G-League team and now the Lakers G-League team. He touches on his coaching philosophy, favoring simplicity versus complexity, and how he’s tried to give his players space to grow. We talk about his eagerness to learn and lessons he’s taken from people like Phil Jackson, Kobe Bryant and Ryan Holiday.

Coby is going to be releasing his own podcast soon called The Curious Leader, which will kick off with guests like Phil Jackson and Metta World Peace (Ron Artest), so be sure to go subscribe to listen to those episodes when they release in early February.

Show Notes:

(1:43) - Episode begins with growing up the son of a coach and being a ball boy for the Seattle Sonics

(5:00) - How he handles the stress of the job

(7:15) - The benefits of coaching in the NBA G-League

(8:55) - What made him want to pursue coaching as a profession after his playing career

(11:05) - The transition from player to coach

(16:20) - Why he tries to keep things simple for his players

(21:30) - What he focuses on to develop guys like Alex Caruso, Thomas Bryant, etc.

(24:40) - What led him to start a podcast (The Curious Leader)

(27:50) - How time playing for and spent with Phil Jackson made him introspective

(29:18) - Must listen story about him sneaking into the Chicago Bulls locker room to watch Michael Jordan during the NBA Finals when he was a ball boy for the Seattle Sonics

(30:35) - Best memorabilia he has from his playing career and being a ball boy

(33:05) - Coaching lessons taken from Phil Jackson

(40:50) - What made him so curious to reach out to connect with people like Ryan Holiday

(43:20) - Lessons learned from playing with Kobe Bryant and spending time with him after they both retired

(48:50) - Why he wants to focus on holding players accountable

(52:50) - What he would tell himself if he could go back to his first day of coaching

(54:20) - Having to handle his 2020 season cut short and the 2021 season not happening

(58:45) - End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• The Alchemist

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Barack Obama

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Clarity and the ability to communicate that clarity to players

4.    What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• n/a

5.    What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Be a head coach at whatever level you can be

6.    What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• Two moments: The first was getting cut by the Lakers the day before his second season with the team. The second was a losing streak for an entire month during the G-League season last year. He overcame it by continually showing up and leaning on his staff.

Favorite Quotes:

“I don't know if I ever told this story, but I was a ball boy in the (NBA) Finals during that time and I was a ball boy in the home locker room, which they have different sets. So you don't like … go in the visitors locker room unless you're invited. And I snuck in and I was sitting there, like, just trying to like act like no one knew who I was…and like literally I was just staring at Mike (Michael Jordan). And like Michael had like this unbelievable focus, right? It was like I wasn't even there. It's like he was in his own space, and you know, the more I've learned on the mental side of it is like he did, he was in his own space. He was in his comfortable zone and he wasn't focused on, like, I couldn't get him out of that. And I think that goes too high performance, ability to maintain focus, and to coach Jackson's ability to train that.”

“The one thing that I provide for them (his players) is simplicity so they can figure out who they are within a team structure.”

“I've been on that pursuit for my whole life, like how do I become a better human, you know, and that was why I reached out to Ryan Holiday because his stuff with stoicism, The Daily Stoic, The Daily Dad, have really impacted my life.”

“You know, I think as a teammate, I noticed immediately he was vicious, just absolutely vicious. And that's who he was, that's how he lived, it was 100% focus. I think watching The Muse that he came out with, you can see there's just this, almost like an animal, animalistic drive to just compete, get better, find a way. Like, you go read his book, which I've read…he talks about studying animals and studying the black mamba. I think for me when I was younger, I was like this is ridiculous…but as I've gotten older, I’m like wow, this stuff does apply there. There's a lot of, I mean, we are animals at the core.”

“Once you can trust me, or I can trust you to hold you accountable at a really, really difficult, uncomfortable level, then then we can start growing together. We can start being more than the sum of our parts.”

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My guest today is Bret Burchard, co-founder of the mindset development company ChampionShift and co-author of “Catching Confetti: Developing the Mindset of a Champion." For the last 10 seasons, he has worked with the Phoenix Suns in various roles, most recently as a development coach and the head coach of their G League team.

In this episode, we discuss his coaching experience with the Phoenix Suns and what piqued his interested to dive head first into the mental performance aspect of coaching and player development. He gives some background on his book and course that he started this year, both of which are designed to help coaches improve their mental game. We dig into some of the different mindsets he believes top performers have and how you can both develop them yourself and instill them within your players. For any coach who wants to improve their mental game, this episode is a must listen.

Show Notes:

(1:21) - What led him into coaching

(3:00) - What it was like to be part of Taylor University’s “Silent Night”

(4:45) - What piqued his interest in the mental performance side of coaching

(7:30) - An overview of his book

(9:12) - The issue with people attaching their identity to performance

(16:00) - The mindsets he discusses in his book

(20:22) - Some of the mindsets coaches have embraced the most

(23:10) - Best practices for goal setting

(27:29) - Helping players navigate their fears and vulnerabilities

(30:55) - How to encourage competition without comparison

(34:22) - Overview of his course

(41:35) - His mentor and Dad embracing the ideas in his book

(41:35) - Where to go to learn more: Website | Book

(43:15) - End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1.    What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• The Art of Learning: An Inner Journey to Optimal Performance by Josh Waitzkin

• The Rise of Superman: Decoding the Science of Ultimate Human Performance by Steven Kotler

2.    Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? 

• Chris McAlister

3.    What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? 

• Improve in communicating with players about your vision

4.    What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• You have to play with a chip on your shoulder

5.    What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Be more concerned with who you’re becoming than what you achieve.

6.    What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• Tying his success as a coach to identity with the Suns in his second year as the Head Coach with the G-League team

Favorite Quotes:

“All suffering reveals the center of your identity.”

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My guest today is Dana Cavalea, who spent 12 years with the New York Yankees, many of which were as the Director of Strength and Conditioning & Performance Enhancement. He won the 2009 World Series and was named the top strength coach voted by his peers during the same season. He is also the author of Habits of A Champion.

During the episode, we discuss what it was like to be called by Yankees GM Brian Cashman at the age of 23 to be promoted to the Head Strength Coach, why certain players have the right mental make-up and routine to succeed over time, how he helped young players work through failure, and what Mariano Rivera said the secret was to his success. He also touches on how GM Brian Cashman handled the team meeting during the 2009 season after they lost 10 straight games, which turned the season around, and what other lessons he learned from guys like Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, and Andy Pettite.

Show Notes

(1:40) —Episode begins with how he was hired to be the head strength coach for the New York Yankees when he was 23 years old

(3:00) — How he built trust with the players at such a young age

(4:30) — How players handle failure in baseball 

(6:15) — Lessons from Joe Torre

(7:45) — How he helped young players handling failure for the first time in their lives

(9:55) — Lessons learned from Andy Pettite 

(11:00) — Why some players were driven because of their rough upbringing

(13:05) — Why Derek Jeter didn’t think everyone deserved equal treatment

(15:50) — Mariano Rivera’s routine

(22:10) — How Yankees GM Brian Cashman handled a meeting during 2009 when the team was in the middle of a 10-game losing streak

(24:45) — End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions:

1. What’s 1 book every coach should read?

How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

2. Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast? John Calipari

3. What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year? Take his health and fitness to another level

4. What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong? You can’t be great at everything; you have to figure out what you’re great at and excel in that area.

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this? Just because you’re young doesn’t mean you don’t know anything, but just because you’re young and you think you know everything doesn’t mean you do.

6. What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it? He and Joe Girardi had philosophical differences on training and his contract wasn’t renewed after his final season as a result but he knew there would be something else for him afterwards. 

Favorite Quotes:

“What makes him (Mariano Rivera) tick is he isn’t worrying about public applause and he’s not worried about public opinion. He just focuses on what it is that he was hired to do. And that was to pitch and get hitters out.”

“When you work under a guy like Joe Torre, it’s like having a grandfather /mob-boss as your manager.” 

“You can have a difficult conversation with a player, but you always have to make that player leave feeling good about themselves, and that’s what Joe (Torre) did a great job of.” 

“If you show up with the intent of being successful and being competitive, you have a great chance of being successful because you’re competitive.”

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My guest today is Craig Custance, who is The Athletic’s editor-in-chief for the NHL and the author of Behind the Bench: Inside the Minds of Hockey’s Greatest Coaches, where he explains his 18 month journey to meet with nine of the top hockey coaches in the world to interview them about their philosophies while watching the most important game of their coaching career.

Craig explains the different ways the coaches were able to connect with their players, some of the different motivational tactics, how they grew as coaches during their career, and how they all were risk takers who embraced lifelong learning.

Show Notes:

(1:10) — How he developed the idea for the book

(4:30) — What themes he saw between the coaches he followed

(8:10) — Bob Hartley’s path from a factory worker to hockey coach

(13:10) — Mike Sullivan and John Tortorella 

(19:40) — Mike Babcock’s coaching philosophy

(23:30) — The coaches’ concise and direct communication with players

(28:52) — Ken Hitchcock’s evolution as a coach

(32:30) — Ron Wilson’s philosophy, which differs from most coaches in the book

(35:25) — Claude Julien’s motivational tactics

(41:00) — Joel Quenneville using other coaches and players to speak to the team

(46:00) — Dan Byslma’s use of a motto for the team

(48:30) — How speaking with these coaches impacted him personally

(54:40) —Best practices for coaches to develop good relationships with the media

(58:25) — End of episode questions

 End of Episode Questions

1. What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear

2. Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast?

John Cooper, Tampa Bay Lightning Head Coach

3. What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year?

Drink less to improve overall health.

4. What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

Everything in moderation is fine. 

5. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

Figure out what you want to do and reverse engineer your path to get there. 

6. What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

When ESPN laid off over 300 people in May, 2017, he was lucky enough to not be laid off, but it was eye-opening.

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My guest today is Nick Nurse, the 2019 NBA Champion head coach of the Toronto Raptors and author of Rapture: Fifteen Teams, Four Countries, One NBA Championship, and How to Find a Way to Win - Damn Near Anywhere. He has one of the more unique coaching backgrounds of any professional head coach, with stops as a player-coach and owner-coach in England, 11 years in Europe, and multiple stints in the NBA G-League.

In this episode he explains how his non-traditional path of coaching in England and the D-League helped him prepare to coach in the NBA, and why he prioritized being a head coach instead of working at the highest level possible early in his career, why he's become a life-long learner and pursuing a doctorate degree. 

To learn more about the Nick Nurse Foundation, click here.

Books Recommended by Coach Nurse:

• Win Forever: Live, Work and Play Like A Champion

• Freedom in the Huddle: The Creative Edge in Coaching Psychology by Darrell Mudra

• Sacred Hoops: SPIRITUAL LESSONS OF A HARDWOOD WARRIOR by Phil Jackson

Show Notes:

(1:23) - Episode begins with Coach Nurse’s time as a player-coach in England

(2:56) - Why he focused on being a head coach early in his career

(5:05) - What led him to be so open to experimenting as a coach

(8:05) - Why it’s so important to empower players

(9:10) - Importance of knowing players have motivations besides just the team

(10:55) - What he learned studying Phil Jackson in his career

(13:58) - What he learned meeting with coaches from other sports, including Joe Maddon

(15:40) - His focus on learning off the court throughout his career

(20:08) - Why he started his foundation

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My guest today is Dr. Vikram Mansharamani, who is currently a lecturer at Harvard University and advises several Fortune 500 CEOs. He has a Ph.D., two Masters degrees from MIT, and a Bachelors degree from Yale University.

In this episode, we discuss his new book, Think for Yourself: Restoring Common Sense in an Age of Experts and Artificial Intelligence. He explains when to rely on experts for help, the importance of focus in today's age, the downside of being constantly overwhelmed with options, and why being a generalist or taking a generalist approach to problem solving may be favorable to relying on experts. He also touches on some of the interesting stories from his book, including how Phil Jackson applied these principles during his coaching career and why President Abraham Lincoln built his cabinet with people who all disagreed with each other.

Show Notes:

(1:40) —Episode begins with what led Vikram to write this book

(3:26) — Why information overload led us to blindly rely on experts

(4:50) — How Phil Jackson applied some of these ideas when coaching the Chicago Bulls

(9:10) — Why we force specialization on young people when it’s not always best

(11:05) — President Lincoln’s ‘Team of Rivals’

(14:48) — Why using a pre-mortem is helpful

(17:40) — Hiring based on generalists or specialists (and background on why General Electric developed more CEOs than any other company by developing generalists)

(20:30) — Deciding whether or not to specialize within your own career

(23:30) — What to consider when getting an opinion from someone

(26:03) — What to consider when asking experts for their opinion

(34:25) — Encouraging disciplined disobedience within your organization

(40:15) — End of episode questions

End of Episode Questions: 

1.What’s 1 book every coach should read?

• The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power Shoshana Zuboff
• Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln by Doris Kearns Goodwin

1. Who is one person you’d want to hear as a guest on this podcast?

• Nassim Taleb (listen to Nassim Taleb discuss how probabilistically thought about COVID as it grew in China on this podcast here)

1. What’s one area you’re looking to improve in over the next year?

• Learn more about artificial intelligence and machine learning

1. What’s popular advice you hear people say that you think is wrong?

• Specialize, specialize, specialize!

1. What advice do you have for young coaches who are listening to this?

• Own your career and think about it in a longer-term perspective and think of each role as a tour of duty.

1. What’s the darkest moment you experienced professionally and how did you overcome it?

• He lost his job right before one of his children got sick and realized he didn’t have healthcare insurance. He overcame it by taking a step back, slowing down and thinking about the situation and being more calibrated that both highs and lows aren’t long lasting. 

Favorite Quotes: 

“It’s hard to remain mission-oriented when you’re constantly being managed by influences outside of you.”

“Seek out disconfirming evidence rather than confirming evidence.”

“If you want to know where someone stands on an issue, look at where they sit.”

“If you’re facing an uncertain, dynamic future, then I find it’s really critical to bring multiple perspectives together; you need to triangulate. And the reason you need to do that is each perspective is limited, biased, and incomplete.”

“Generalists naturally develop an appreciation for what they don’t know; specialists naturally develop an appreciation for what they do know.”