Not Simple

“In addition to it being small moves, I would say consistent moves. What are those consistent practices help that create the conditions for impact?”

CL colleague Barry Bales thinks of leadership as an action rather than a title, and he knows that sometimes the most effective actions are small ones. He and Wendy discuss the importance of connection and engagement, as well as the small moves they’ve seen have big impact.

Mentioned in this episode:

Matthew Lieberman

Adam Kahane

“It’s like our mind wants to categorize things, and it’s much easier to feel pity than trying to embrace the complexity that life goes on and you can live in the midst of war.”

Elena Tochilina is a Ukrainian coach and consultant as well as a colleague at Cultivating Leadership. In this conversation she challenges Wendy, and all of us, to step away from pity and see life in the midst of war as changing, evolving, and composed of not just pain but also beauty.

Mentioned in this episode:
The Decameron by Giovanni Boccaccio

“I care about supporting people more as wayfinders and what it might take to ditch the maps and find your own way—and keep learning and growing.”

CL colleague Fred Jones is a lover and collector of questions that he stays with a long time. One of those questions: how do you help people create time and space for reflection in periods of transition, those moments of “meanwhile” where what’s next isn’t obvious? Join Fred and Wendy as they explore the questions this question inspires that might help in these mapless moments.

Mentioned in this episode:

Parker Palmer
Designing Your Life

Learn more about Fred and his work at meanwhile.studio.

“It matters how we feel because how we feel and how we’re doing impocts everyone.”



TV has taught us that doctors are sexy, mysterious superheroes, but what is really happening at the other end of the stethoscope is more complex than we realize. Rehema Kutua, a pediatrician and certified coach, came to Not Simple to discuss what it feels like to be a primary care physician today and what happens when we see the human behind the title.

“There’s a deep sense of letting go, of surrendering so they can open up into a new possibility for themselves, whether it’s becoming a coach or becoming a senior leader or leading in a new way.”

We all know changing behaviors and habits is hard, but our language around it often “just” oversimplifies it. Bill Pullen brings his experience as a person in recovery, a coach, and a teacher of coaches to this thoughtful conversation that covers adult development, the importance of connection, and the slow and beautiful process of emergence.

Mentioned in this episode:
Adult Development
The Concept of the Third

Read more of Bill's thoughts on change on the Cultivating Leadership blog.

"Carolyn and I got excited about the question of how does your body know how to handle complexity in ways that are exciting and useful and even joyful—and how can you amplify that?"

Wendy is back in the host's chair, talking to her longtime friends and colleagues about their book, Unleash Your Complexity Genius: Growing Your Inner Capacity to Lead. They cover action urges, the power of noticing, and the genius of breath, dance, and laughter.

"What we’re seeing as we start to humanise organizations is this acknowledgment that actually leadership exists within everyone."

Leanne Holdsworth and Naryan Wong recently led their Cultivating Leadership colleagues in a research and writing project that resulted in the book Human Work: Five Leadership Mindsets for Humanising Workplaces. They share those mindsets with Rebecca and discuss the ripples unleashed when work is truly human.

Their book is available now. Learn more and connect with The Human Work Network here.

"I think we do ourselves such a disservice to not acknowledge that iterative process, to just pretend that it’s yes/no, black/white. It’s never been the world we live in, but it certainly isn’t now."

Jarel LaPan Hill, the former city manager of the City of Santa Fe, NM, shares the complexity lessons learned managing an organization through Covid and how we might carry them forward.

“I spent two decades writing prescriptions… and it occurred to me that what determined somebody’s health was really what they were doing between visits.”



Dr. Eileen O’Grady is a nurse practitioner, a wellness coach, and the author of Choosing Wellness: Unconventional Wisdom for the Overwhelmed, the Discouraged, the Addicted, the Fearful, or the Stuck. She joined Rebecca and Diana to discuss often overlooked facets of well-being like setting boundaries, parenting, and dealing with difficult people.

“We tend to think if we send teachers off to a two day workshop magically they’ll come back to the classroom and be able to do something different that will impact the lives of children.”

Dr. Jennie Snyder, deputy superintendent for instructional services for the Sonoma County Office of Education and longtime educator, talks to Wendy about enacting change in education and the difference made by approaching things with a spirit of experimentation and curiosity.