Hear how when you allow life to unfold, you find that miracles happen

I first interviewed Dr. Srikumar Raoin July 2023and was so deeply inspired by the wisdoms he shared with us that I wanted to have him back so he could teach us more. And he does. The title of his new book isModern Wisdom, Ancient Roots, in which he offers solidtools we can use to let go of the mental chatter that gets in the way of seeing what’s possible. The universe is benevolent, Dr. Rao says, it’s your friend, and when we understand this, that’s when we can change our story and thus, the direction of our lives. Are you ready to make a change, today?

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Some of Dr. Rao’s wisdoms which you can apply to your own life

• The most important thing is not what you’re doing but who you are being as you do it.Too often we get hung up on the doing, and we completely miss the fact that being is much more important than the doing.
• Allow life to unfold.And as you do, you find that miracles happen, and they happen on a regular basis.
• We never experience life the way it is.We always experience life according to the story we tell ourselves about it.
• When you change your thinking from the universe is indifferent to the universe is friendly,your experience of life has such a tremendous transformation.
• Open yourself up to possibilities.
• The universe is benevolent.The universe is your friend. Recognize that it’s your friend. And the more you do this, the more signs you will get that it in fact is your friend.
• Your job in this life is to recognize who you really are and cast yourself free from this cage in which you have ensnared yourself.Trust yourself and recognize that the door to your prison is always open and unlocked. All you have to do is open the door and step out of it.
• Why does the universe give you stuff you don’t want?Well, the universe doesn’t give you what you want, but gives you exactly what you need for your learning and growth.
• We all have mental chatter.And the problem is not that you have mental chatter, the problem is you identify with your mental chatter. So sit back and observe your mental chatter. Observe yourself feeling worried. Observe yourself feeling anxious. And as you create that distance, you no longer have your mental chatter. You’re the observer of the mental chatter. Then it loses its ability to take you to places you don’t want to go.

To contact Dr. Srikumar Rao

You can reach out to Dr. Rao onLinkedIn,Twitteror his website,The Rao Institute. Watch his TED Talkhereand email him [email protected].

More inspiration for finding joy and purpsoe on your life journey:

• Blog:Time to Add Gratitude to Your Life—And Your Company’s Culture!
• Blog:You Can Find Joy And Happiness In Turbulent Times!
• Podcast:Richard Sheridan—How To Lead With Joy And Purpose!
• Podcast:Meg Nocero—Can You Feel Joy As You Rethink Your Life?

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and Andi Simon, PhD
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’mAndi Simon. I’m your host and your guide. And as you know, this podcast is designed to help you get off the brink. The one thing we don’t want you to do is get stuck or stalled. But you can begin to understand how you can change. And that’s what we like to help people and their organizations do.

So today, I have a wonderful gentleman here, andDoctor Rao did a podcast with us earlier, last July in fact, that was just a hit, but he’s got a new book coming out. Actually, it’s out and I have been reading it and you will love it. Let me tell you a little bit about Dr. Srikumar Rao.

He is a creator of creativity and personal mastery. His bio doesn’t fit a bio. It’s a wonderful story about a life well-lived. He’s a speaker, a former business school professor and head ofThe Rao Institute, and I urge you to take a look at that online because it’s full of rich opportunities for you to begin to see, feel and think in new ways. And I use those words, but they mimic the words he uses.

He is an executive coach to senior business executives, and he helps them find deeper meaning and engagement in their work. He also talks about the fact that work isn’t work. And I love the idea because I love to work, and people say, when are you going to retire? I say, I’m never going to retire. Why is work bad? Because we define it as something that is not fun, but work isn’t work. Work is something that gives us all kinds of things, purpose, meaning, joy. What could it do for you?

My last thought today is to make sure that you understand Dr. Rao has programs and coaching that you can enjoy because they are joyful to help you begin to become the kind of person that you’d like to be. I’m going to call you Srikumar.

Srikumar Rao:Works just fine.

Andi Simon:Thank you for joining me again. It’s really a pleasure.

Srikumar Rao:It’s my pleasure, Andi. I had such a blast the last time you interviewed me that I was positively looking forward to this session.

Andi Simon:For our audience, watch out, here comes some really wonderful, wonderful stuff. Give the audience some context, though. Who are you? A man of your journey and why was this book? The book is calledModern Wisdom, Ancient Roots. Now when you buy an ebook, that’s how I can show you the book. And I did buy a hard copy, but it isn’t a hard copy. And as I’m reading it, I think you’re going to find it wonderful. What is the context for this book and who are you? Why should they listen?

Srikumar Rao:Who am I? As you mentioned, I’m an executive coach, and I have a very well defined niche. I work with successful people, mostly entrepreneurs, who have already done very well for themselves. But they’re driven. They want to have an outsized impact on the world.

But at the same time, they have an explicitly spiritual bent that they would like to infuse into every area of their life. They know that life is about more than getting the biggest toys, or the most expensive toys. And there’s something deeper, and they want to bring that into all parts of their life. So that’s the sandbox in which I play, and to the best of my knowledge, I’m the only person who’s playing in that particular sandbox. I may be wrong, but I’m not aware of any others.

Andi Simon:Well, clearly it’s not ared oceanof lots of competition pushing you away, is it?

Srikumar Rao:No there isn’t. By the time people come to me, they’ve already done their homework. They’ve listened to myTED Talk. They watched many of my videos on YouTube, and they know they want to work with me.

Andi Simon:And when they do the kind of work you like to do with them, can you give us some ideas?

Srikumar Rao: We have conversations. We have deep conversations, and I have an unusual take on coaching. So let me explain that. In my view, the only thing you ever do in life, Andi, is you work on yourself. A benevolent universe has given you many tools. Your husband is a tool. Your daughters and granddaughters are tools. The business you run, the clients you have, they’re all tools.

You want to do the very best you can for your clients. You want them to feel: Gee, hiring Andi was the best thing that I ever did. But in the process of doing that, what you’re really doing is you’re working on yourself. You want to be a great wife. You want to be a great mother. In the process of doing that, what you really do is you work on yourself.

The only thing you ever do in life is work on yourself. Now the universe has given you wonderful tools and running a business is a Swiss army knife of tools. You use that skillfully, but you never lose sight of the fact that in using these tools skillfully, what you’re really doing is you’re working on yourself. Does that make sense to you, Andi?

Andi Simon:Yes. Maybe because it requires you to be reflective of what you’re doing, how you’re doing it, and what the impact or the outcome is.

Srikumar Rao:Exactly correct. Because the most important thing, Andi, is not what you’re doing. but who you’re being as you do it. And too often we get hung up on the doing, and we completely miss the fact that being is much more important than the doing.

Andi Simon: I’ll stay on that for a moment. I don’t want to lose track of why this new book and how it fits. But as I hear you, you work with successful people who may or may not realize how they have become who they are. They may not be happy with where they are, but they don’t seem to have a toolkit to begin to take them to the next place. And that is a big theme that I’m finding that people find themselves either in retirement or transition or job change or career growth, and it’s being done to them instead of them owning their lif

The more diverse your organization, the more successful it will be

Today I bring to you a most fascinating and consequential woman leader,Melissa Andrieux. Born and bred in Queens, New York, Melissa became a prosecutor, then Queens District Attorney, then civil litigator. She is now Chief Diversity Officer at the law firm Dorf Nelson & Zauderer. She is also Chief Client Relations Officer, and is tapping into her extensive experience in marketing, business development and recruitment to drive business growth within the firm by establishing a culture of diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging. What’s more, she helps other firms bring DEI&B into their own cultures. Melissa is not only a trailblazer but a beacon for others to emulate. Do enjoy.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Key takeaways from our podcast

• It’s never too late.Don’t let people tell you that you’re only good at one thing. Just because you’re good at it doesn’t mean you should keep doing it.
• Yes you should have a plan, but don’t get so fixed on it that you miss the opportunities that come.
• You need diverse perspectives within your organization, because the clients out there are so diverse. They can pick and choose who they want to work with, who they want to give their money to, and if they’re not seeing representation at your organization or at your business, they’re going to go elsewhere.
• Diversityis a reference, a representation of different cultures, different backgrounds, different races, sexual orientations. Diversity can also be the differences in education, socioeconomic background, marital status. People often think that it’s just racial or gender, but that’s not it. There are so many different aspects to diversity. It’s what makes us different and unique.
• Equityat its basic level is about fairness and leveling the playing field. Contrary to what some people think, it’s not about taking from one group to give to another group. It’s about making adjustments to imbalances. It’s really about fairness.
• Inclusionis related to belonging. Inclusion is, you’re being invited to the party to play, you’re being given a seat at the table, you’re being considered. And as a decision maker, as a colleague, your voice is being heard.
• If we do not start with the basics, the foundations, and understand why people feel a certain way, why people think that they need to gravitate towards their own groups, their own culture, then we’re never going to get to where we need to be. It’s all about knowledge, education and understanding.
• When it comes to DEI, the leader is instrumentalbecause nothing can be done without the leader’s buy-in.

You can connect with Melissa byLinkedInor email:[email protected].

More stories of women making DEI a reality, not just an idea

• Maureen Berkner Boyt—Diversity and Inclusion: Let’s Go Beyond Hoping and Make Inclusion Really Happen
• Rohini Anand—Can Businesses Create Cultures Based On True Diversity, Equity and Inclusion?
• Andie Kramer—Can “Beyond Bias” Take Your Organization To Great Heights?
• Maria Colacurcio—Stop The Revolving Door. Help Your Employees Embrace A Diverse And Equitable Workplace.
• Businesses Must Sustain Diversity And Inclusion For Women

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and Andi Simon, PhD
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.Hi I’mAndi Simon and as you know, as my frequent followers who come to watch our podcast, I’m here to be the guide and the host to take you off the brink. Our job is to help you see, feel and think in new ways. And in order to do that, you have to listen to people who have changed. Change is painful. Your brain hates me. But don’t run away. Today we’re going to have a great, great time. I have with us today Melissa Andrieux who’s an attorney whom I met at a wonderful party. And she has really given me some perspective on something that I think is important for us to share.

She’s smiling at me. Here’s a little bit about her background and then she’s going to tell you about her own journey. Melissa is an experienced litigator. She leveraged her background in law to lead Dorf Nelson & Zauderer, the law firm, in their initiatives as chief diversity officer. She’s also the firm’s chief client relations officer, and she’s tapping into her extensive experience in marketing, business development and recruitment to drive business growth within the firm.

But what’s really important is, she’s gone from being a litigator to being an expert in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging professional space. So she’s helping the firm help other firms begin. And this is my world: see, feel and think in new ways so they can begin to understand why having a lot of diversity of all kinds, including cognitive diversity and listening to each other is important, and understand how to include people in things that you might have not thought they were part of. Melissa, thank you for joining me today.

Melissa Andrieux:Well, thank you for having me, Andi. It’s a real pleasure to be on your show.

Andi Simon:Well, it was a real pleasure to meet you when we did the book launch at Josie’s. I asked people if they wanted to share their wisdoms and Melissa had a story she wanted to tell. She’s going to tell it again today. But first, who is Melissa? Tell us about your journey, please.

Melissa Andrieux:Well, when you called me up to tell my story, I was a little shocked. I hadn’t planned on being called upon. But I love sharing my story. I was born and bred in Queens. I am a lawyer, as you said. And I came to that profession kind of, I didn’t have mentors in my life who were lawyers or judges. I learned by watching TV what was interesting. That’s why I chose my profession and what was on TV? You’re a prosecutor. You are a criminal defense lawyer. So I chose the prosecution route.

I always wanted to be a Queens District Attorney, and I became one. I loved that job. I represented the people of the State of New York, the county of Queens, and as most people in government, we move on into civil practice. And then I moved into civil litigation. I did that for a very long time. You may find that shocking, but I did it for 12 years at a firm and then I moved to Dorf Nelson & Zauderer, which was then Dorf Nelson. Now it’s Dorf Nelson & Zauderer.

And I did that for a while, and it’s kind of sad looking back on it, but I did it for such a long time when I didn’t really enjoy it, but I didn’t know what else was out there. I had no clue what to do with this law degree. So I just kept on doing litigation, and it got to the point where I started speaking with people at the firm, and I was told that this opening for marketing and business development was available. And I said, well, I’ve never done either. I’m a litigator, I’m a lawyer.

But then it got to the point where I was just candidly miserable. I didn’t want to get out of bed, I didn’t want to go to work. So I said, you know, let me try the position, and I’m not a failer. I don’t like to fail. So I said, I’m going to put my heart and soul into it. And I started learning about the business side of law, which I had no idea that law was a business. I thought you just went to court, the depositions, blah blah blah, but I found it very interesting. I was meeting clients, I was meeting prospective clients, I was learning about the business.

And then that developed into marketing, which opened a whole new world for me. And with the marketing, I was looking at other law firms, I was looking at businesses, and the DEI aspect clicked. I mean, as you can see, I’m a woman of color in the legal profession, which another story is really not as diverse as should be, but we’ll leave that for another time. So I started looking internally at what we could do to make the law firm better, more inclusive, more attractive to candidates. We wanted to hire people. So what do you do? So I spoke with leadership. I had to get their buy-in or else this would never work.

And the first thing that we did is, we started a Diversity and Inclusion Council. And I hand-picked the members, and we just had candid conversations about what was going on at the firm, what they wanted to see change, and I studied. It was not easy. I spoke with people in the DEI space. I found the experts, I read, and it got to the point where I was being called upon to do panels and advise people on their own DEI journeys. I mean, it wasn’t a quick thing, unfortunately. It took a lot of hard work. I had a lot of mentors and sponsors in my corner.

Luckily, I’m one of those individuals who actually found people who wanted to invest in me, and that’s kind of how I ended up here. I know that a lot of people, and I’ve heard this, think that the law firm hand-picked the Black attorney to be the DEI officer, but I assure you that it’s not the case. I wanted this role. I advocated for this role, and I believe that I’m doing a very good job w

Learn how to escape or even avoid crushing student debt

I am beyond thrilled to bring to you a remarkable young women, Bri Franklin, who co-founded the non-profitThe Prosp(a)rity Projectto help others avoid the massive amount of debt she incurred by attending an expensive college and being ignorant of the student loan consequences. She could have let the financial burden she experienced after graduation defeat her, but she decided to defeat it. Over many years she has worked tirelessly to pay off almost all of her debt. Now her mission is to help others in the same boat. Listen in, be inspired, and please share far and wide.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Key takeaways from our conversation:

• Young people: think very carefully about who you want your future self to be, and make sure that the you of 10 or 20 years from now thanks you and is appreciative for the actions that you take today.
• Taking out loans have the potential to either upgrade your life or set you far behind the eight ball.
• Bri: If I could do it all over again, I absolutely would have heeded the advice of being very careful before just blindly signing any paperwork.
• College used to close the gap between socioeconomic groups, but now unfortunately, because of some bad acting, it has become the opposite and is now growing the wealth gap between socioeconomic classes and race communities.
• Predatory lending is subprime lending, taking advantage of a customer for the sake of financial gain. It’s basically taking advantage of customer and consumer ignorance, which tends to adversely impact people in black and brown communities.
• Bri’s hope is to educate young people and their parents through the educational system long before they make college loan decisions.

Want to connect with Bri? You can find her onLinkedIn,Instagram,Facebook,Twitter, and her websiteThe Prosp(a)rity Project.

More stories of courageous entrepreneurs making a real difference in people’s lives:

• Hamilton Perkins—An Inspiring Entrepreneurial Success Story
• Theresa Carrington—Transforming Impoverished Artisans Into Entrepreneurs
• Lynette Guastaferro—Transforming How Teachers Teach In Over 700 Urban Schools
• Ivy Gordon—Providing A Powerful Voice To The Sexually Abused

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and Andi Simon, PhD
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.Hi I’mAndi Simon. Remember, my job is to get you off the brink. And the way I like to do that is to help you listen to people, or see them if you’re watching the video, who can help you really understand the challenges in front of us in these fast changing times, and how you can see, feel and think about them with a fresh perspective. I like that fresh lens because unless you see somebody who’s addressing a problem, you really don’t understand the words, even if you read about it or maybe watched a video. There’s something very personal about some of the challenges that we’re facing that you might be as well. And so how do you address them?

So I met Bri Franklin, and Bri came to one of our book launch events forWomen Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success. And I must tell you that the book tour has been extraordinary as well. I’m enjoying the people we meet there. So she and I spoke afterwards. Let me give you a bit of a biography of her bio, and then she’ll tell you much more about her own journey. And I think it’s an important one that you understand.

Bri Franklin is a businesswoman, philanthropist and student debt expert and thought leader with a passion for the socioeconomic and holistic empowerment of Black girls and women. And I think you’re going to think about this for all girls and women, but particularly women of color who are dealing with things in a particular fashion. Having taken on a financial burden that eventually ballooned to nearly $120,000 in student debt through her undergraduate studies at Dartmouth College, Bri developed an acute appreciation for the challenges many student debt holders experience, including their diminished ability to establish financial independence, take advantage of personal freedoms, or launch a business venture.

There was an article I was reading today about how the student debt for the generation who’s coming into the markets today is limiting their ability to buy a car. Today, a car is so expensive, it’s often as expensive as buying someplace to live. And 52% of the young people are living at home, not necessarily because they want to, because it’s impossible to find a place they can afford even if they share it. So our economy and our society is very challenging for young people because of the student debt and the inability to get past it.

In recognizing the extent to which other Black women in particular experience adversity at the hands of the $2 trillion student debt crisis and the lack of financial literacy, particularly not knowing what it means, not knowing what to do about it, Bri formedThe Prosp(a)rity Projectas a solution for eradicating the systemic barriers. Her work has been profiled in outlets such asForbes, BuzzFeed, Authority Magazine,andThriveGlobal, and she’s attracted support from audiences worldwide, generating nearly $400,000 in revenue.

But I think this is a more complicated and serious opportunity for you to understand what’s happening, how it’s impacting lots and lots and lots of young people, particularly Black women, and what we need to do to teach them how to be literate, but also how to use it wisely. Even businesswomen tell me that they don’t understand the finances and they don’t go after capital. So this is a big long term opportunity for us to educate them. Thank you for joining me today.

Bri Franklin:Oh my gosh. Well, your intro was incredibly flattering. Thank you so much for making space and the opportunity for me to be a guest today.

Andi Simon:You are a beautiful and brilliant woman. I’d like you to share with the audiences your own journey because as you shared it with me, I went, oh my gosh, we have to have you on our podcast so people can appreciate that, that nothing is a straight line from here to there. And your journey is not unique. There are many others just like you, but yours is the one we’re going to focus on. Who is Bri Franklin and what has been your journey so far? You’re a young person, but it’s been a complicated one.

Bri Franklin:It certainly has. I like to say that I had a very atypical post-graduation trajectory, and it was very much a jungle gym and not a straight line or ladder. So I came out of Dartmouth. I was the first in my family not to go to college but to go Ivy League. So I grew up in the Deep South, from Atlanta, Georgia, and always performed at the top of my class, student honor roll, principal’s list. You get the idea. And everyone just always told me, you’ve got to go to the Ivy League. You know, that’s where it’s at for you and that’s where you’re going to thrive and excel.

And so I really internalized that and thought, this is the only way to really honor my academic inclinations to the best of my ability. I started with one of the schools in my top choices and I ended up getting accepted, and it was between Dartmouth and Emory University. So, again, as an Atlanta native, it was a very close call because Emory was offering quite a bit of financial aid to the tune of all but $5,000 in grants, and that would have applied across all four years. So if I had chosen there, I would have walked away with no more than $20,000 in debt. That’s if I hadn’t done work-study or anything to offset my obligation versus the $100,000 that I came out of Dartmouth with.

And the deciding factor was, I was looking at the opportunity of going to an Ivy League and being in those circles, and the 18-year-old version of myself was also very much motivated by getting away from my parents and being able to break camp and go do my own thing. Not the best decision or reason for accruing so much debt, but that is how my story goes. So I came out of Dartmouth in 2017, as I mentioned, with $100,000 in debt principal, and then it quietly ballooned to about $116,000 within two years because of both interest and ignorance, on my part, and because of that ignorance, I also aimlessly wandered into other kinds of debt, and that included credit cards, and a car that was way outside my budget.

It impacted every level of my life, socioeconomically and mental health, and put me behind the eight ball in terms of achieving the typical milestones that young twenty-somethings often have made in the past, with little to no friction. So, and having dealt with that personally, I just became incredibly empathetic to others in that situation because it showed me that this was not the result of anything that I had done as far as breaking rules. In fact, I was trying to follow the rules, but unfortunately it worked against me because of what I now discovered is called predatory and subprime lending. So that’s exactly what my work focuses on resolving at a syst

Hear this incredible story of steadfast bravery and human kindness

I am truly honored to bring to you today a very special guest, Panos Manias. A self-made entrepreneur who started his own industrial company in aluminium packaging materials, Panos isan inspirational and visionary businessman. But what we focus on in our interview is his personal story of how kindness and moral obligation saved lives during The Holocaust, and possibly can change the world today. You will feel uplifted and deeply moved, I know I was.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

More stories of courage and human kindness:

• Blog:You Can Find Joy And Happiness In Turbulent Times!
• Podcast:Rebecca Morrison—Women, Are You Ready To Find Your Happiness? Is It All Around You?
• Podcast:Patrik Birkhane—Helping Us Live Healthier, Happier And More Peaceful Lives

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and Andi Simon, PhD
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, and as you know, I’m your host and your guide. And my job is to help you get off the brink, to understand things and see them through a fresh lens. I’m acorporate anthropologist, and I’d love to share with you information from different cultures and times that will help you put into perspective your own situation today, and how to make sense out of it and understand it better.

So I’m really honored today to have Mr. Panos Manias with me. Panos is in Greece. He’s in Athens. He was introduced to me by a wonderful woman here in New York who wanted me to share his story. Now, Panos’s story is set back in the period when the Germans came into Thessalonica and really took over the city. And so I’d like him to begin to understand how to share that with you so that it is held in posterity so we don’t lose the story, and that the wonderful actions that he and his family took then are preserved.

So let me tell you about Panos. Panos Manias was born in 1934. He was one of five children. He’s married now and has two wonderful children and four grandchildren. He holds a bachelor’s degree in business, economics and international commerce from the Athens University of Economics and Business. He’s a self-made entrepreneur who started his own industrial company in aluminum packaging material in 1965. It’s now managed by his two children.

Panos, in his professional career, has spanned more than a half a century, and he’s proved to be an inspirational and visionary entrepreneur. His personal and business integrity, together with his determination on focusing on personal relationships, has been passed to the next generation of aluminum and continue to be the key drivers of the company’s success. Now, Panos is an amazing man, and I know he wants to tell you about the situations when the Germans came into Thessalonica, but what I’d like him to do is begin with his own journey. Tell us about yourself. How did you develop as an entrepreneur? Panos, give us some context to understand your own personal journey here. Can you do that, sir, please?

Panos Manias:Yeah. All right. Well, after finishing the American Veterans College, which is an American school and one of the best in the country in Greece, in Athens. I started working for a big company specializing in aluminum. And slowly they appreciated the job I was doing. And they offered me to go into a joint venture with this big company, whom I will never forget, because they really gave me a very good chance in my life. So I started working for them and they appreciated what I was doing, and they offered me to go into a joint venture in aluminum products.

And slowly but surely, it was expanding and expanding and expanding. And to make a long story short, after so many years, we are proud to say that we are a company which is 100% export oriented. We export everything all over the world and, thank God, both of my children, when they finished their studies in Greece and the United States, were both Brown University alumni. When they came back, I told them very openly and very clearly, now you are here, what do you want to do? It’s up to you. You decide, and I will respect your decision.

So they both said they want to continue working for me, I mean, for the company. And they said something which I will never forget. Listen, it’s your decision. You are never going to tell me you are not happy. If you are not happy, tell me now. They both agreed. They followed my steps and I must say that they did much, much better than I did. And I’m very proud of it.

The story we’re talking about starts in and stays where we were living. Before the war, we had the building, we had the big three stories building on our own, and we were living there. And the time was during the German occupation. It was a very difficult life, was very, very difficult, because people were asking questions and this and that and my aunt and my uncle who were living in the cellar, they were partners with my father, who was in Athens. They had both a joint venture in the food industry.

So one day he calls my father and he says in Salonika, there is a very good friend of the family, a Jewish family called Caruso. They were both living next to each other in a street in Salonika and were excellent friends together. They were not friends. They were brothers, although one was Jewish, neither was Christian. Every day they were going to meet together to discuss their problems, this and that. Before the war, everything was okay. And then when the German occupation started, everybody froze because they didn’t know what would happen. And unluckily the Germans were trying to find out if there were Jewish people in every neighborhood.

So one day they go to my father’s, to my uncle’s house, and they say that they would like to take it, not rent it. They wanted to have an officer living there, a German officer. They were frozen. So this is okay. And they didn’t know what to do. So they decided to take the Jewish family in their own home, hide them in an attic, but nobody would see them in the morning. And that’s okay. You can now have the home, the home which they knew was Jewish, but they left there. They’re not here. I don’t know where they are because they disappeared. And the Germans were living next to them. And it was very difficult. Very difficult thing to do.

And my uncle wanted to take them out of Salonika again, because in Salonika it was terrible. The Germans were killing Jews by the thousands. It was a genocide. It was incredible. I have to say something. My uncle, my parents and my father, they were very good businessmen, but they were not, as today, educated and things like that. But they had a good straight mind. So he called my father from Thessaloniki, and he said to him, Listen, there is a family here, that we are brothers with them, father and mother and four siblings.

So they said they made the plan. First of all, my uncle had very good connections with them. Then probably what they laughed at is the guerrillas who were fighting against the Germans, they issued for them fraud identity cards with the name Angelides. For Angelides, that was the name. And then he said he discussed it with the father and the family left and went to a fishing village very close to this island to hide themselves, waiting for a boat to take them to Athens. The boat was not arriving and not arriving, and the mayor of this small fishing town started asking questions. Who are they? What are they doing? Why are they here?

Somebody told them that he was going to call the Germans, that there is a Jewish family living on this island. They were frozen to death. And then they left because the Germans said, if you don’t give them up to us, we’re going to burn the whole island. They were doing it. Burn the whole island. I’m sorry, village. So the mayor told them, Listen, the whole village is in your hands. So the fact that they said, no, forget it. We are leaving right away. And they left and went back to Thessaloniki. They decided to return to Athens for sure.

Then you know, at that time there were no trains, there were just big old buses that were going from Salonika to Athens, which would take ten hours. And he decided after having the fake identity cards to put them on a bus and take them to Athens, where my father was living, my family, so that they would hide in Athens and nobody would know anything about it. My uncle insisted that he send them to go all together. Listen, he said it is a massacre. They killed Jews by the thousands. You must all go together. No, Mr. Carlson said, No, Mr. Manius. No. I’m going to stay here with my wife and the two children.

And he sent the other two with a bus. He didn’t take no for the reply. So my uncle said, okay, you want to do that? Do that. So with the fake IDs, they went to the bus station. They stayed in the third row and the fifth row, but far apart from each other, so that they wouldn’t know that their brother and sister and they were going in Larissa, which is half way from Athens to Thessaloniki, the bus stop for the rest. And the driver, who was not a good man, understood that something was wrong with these children. I don’t know how. He went and looked at them and said nothing, and he wa

Hear how to open yourself up to a world of infinite possibilities

As you know, I like a fresh lens. That’s what we do asanthropologists. We go out and help you see what’s all around you, and sometimes you can’t see what’s right here. Today, I have a wonderful woman, Roberta Fernandez, who’s going to help you do the same thing. Together, we’re going to help you realize that change is painful in some ways, but an opportunity for you to transform who you are in a great way. A personal and professional development consultant, Roberta takes your full self and helps you look at it a little bit differently. I love the word development. It isn’t a coach. It’s how do I help you grow? And how do we take a challenge and address it? Listen in to find out.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Key takeaways from our conversation:

• You cannotchange a cultureuntil the people in it change.
• Emotion drives all behavior.
• We all at some point in our lives should “clean out our closet” — get rid of those limiting beliefs and the stuff that really isn’t a part of you, and open the door for that higher self.
• If we’re only focused on the problem, that’s all we’re going to be able to see. We have to focus on the solution, what we want.
• The story we tell is the life that we create for ourselves. And it’s the life that we get stuck in. We stand in our own way, and what we want to do is to be able to open ourselves to this world of infinite possibilities.
• Most of our thinking is habitual, just automated. When we become aware of how we think and what we feel as an individual, then we can recognize those things in other people.
• The reason why we want anything is because we think we’re going to feel better when we can have it. So even though we don’t know the answer to something, we know how we want to feel when we’ve accomplished it.
• If you look at any great artist or scientist or inventor or highly successful person in general, they’re going to tell you that changing how they think, how they process, and how they see things differently than anybody else is what has contributed the most to their success.

You can connect with Roberta onLinkedIn,Facebook,Instagram, and her three websites:Roberta Fernandez/AHARA,Conscious NappingandConscious Napping For Business. You can also email her [email protected].

Want more on how to actually bring about real change? Here’s a start:

• Blog:Okay, Okay, I’m Ready To Change. How Do I Do It?
• Blog:Three Ways Corporate Anthropology Can Help Your Company Change
• Podcast:Valerio Pascotto and Amit Raikar—Yes Change Is Painful But It’s Necessary!

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and Andi Simon, PhD
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, I’m your host and your guide.And if you come to my podcast, like so many of you do, you know my job is to help you see, feel and think in new ways. And remember, I tell you that because until you see something, it doesn’t exist. And if you don’t feel it, you don’t know how to respond to it. And so my job is to bring you people who, through their stories, will help you think about yourself through a fresh perspective.

It’s not exactly the right metaphor, but I like a fresh lens. And that’s what we do asanthropologists. We go out and help you see what’s all around you, and sometimes you can’t see what’s right here. But today, I have a wonderful woman, and she’s going to help you do the same thing. So together, we’re going to lift you up and help you realize that change is painful in some ways, but an opportunity for you to transform who you are in a great way. She’s smiling.

We are very aligned and it’s so exciting to meet Roberta Fernandez. I’m going to read her bio a bit as a personal and professional development consultant. It’s interesting, when I launched my business, it was as ananthropologistthat helps companies and the people inside them change. Not that different, but to be a personal and professional development consultant takes your full self and helps you look at it a little bit differently. She offers programs for individuals and organizations that develop emotional intelligence, EQ, and guides them through a change process to awaken their full potential and realize their higher abilities.

She’s perfected individual personal development, and that’s different from coaching. And I love the word development. It isn’t a coach. It’s how do I help you grow? And how do we take a challenge and begin to address it? And wellness. And I love self-care and well-being, executive managerial and team corporate training programs, particularly in the area of sustainability, culture change and emotional intelligence. She’ll get you more familiar with the sustainability part of her career, but there’s a whole package here that comes together with Roberta that you’re going to enjoy.

She’s conducted thousands of individual client sessions, more than 85 noteworthy presentations and trainings over the past 15 years. She’s going to talk to you about her new program called AHARA. I’m going to let her tell you about it in just a little bit. It’s a sacred term that refers to the support of consciousness, eliminating everything which is not the intrinsic or higher nature of yourself. It’s interesting, I was supposed to do a podcast with somebody earlier who was going to talk about something similar in her own discovery. When we got together, she wasn’t quite ready to talk about it, but in some ways, we must be facing an interesting moment where we are looking for our higher nature and the world is a very fragile place. And she’ll also talk about cleaning your own closet and conscious napping. She’s very clever lady. Roberta, thank you for joining me today.

Roberta Fernandez:Thanks for having me, Andi. I’m really excited to be here. And I’m excited too, because I think we are such a good fit for each other with how we think.

Andi Simon:I think it is, and it’s always interesting how we came to think the way we think.

Roberta Fernandez:Right it is. It’s been a journey. It is.

Andi Simon:So let’s talk about your journey. This didn’t all just drop into the bucket right here. You’ve had a wonderful life professionally and personally. Share it with us. And that’ll set the stage for what the programs are that you’re offering today. Please. Who is Roberta?

Roberta Fernandez:Well, I think I am a culmination of many, many years, getting into that last third of my life now, which is a pretty exciting time. I’ve been a serial entrepreneur since my 20s. I’ve done a lot of different things, but I think the thing that really changed my life, I had founded a Montessori school for 3- to 12-year-olds. So talk about anthropology. Montessori. She was an anthropologist, too, as well as a doctor way ahead of her time.

I didn’t know what I was going to do with my life. And I was sitting in a theater one day and I saw this movie,An Inconvenient Truth, and it just rocked my world, I have to tell you. And so I went home on the website and buried deep with this link, “Apply to be a presenter.” And I thought, okay, I can talk, I know how to talk, right? So I did. I forgot all about it. Probably 5 or 6 weeks later I get a call, it’s Al Gore’s office, and he invited me to be one of the first 50 people that they were going to train to give this climate talk.

Andi Simon:It was, see, I believe in serendipity. Absolutely.

Roberta Fernandez:And I was looking for my next stage and I had no idea what it was going to be. And so I went to Nashville. Long story. Mr. Gore trained a thousand people to give that climate talk over probably a six month period. And it was a wonderful grassroots, nonpartisan movement. I learned a lot from it. It opened my world, my look at my world, to a whole new area of sustainability, which was at that time not a very common term.

And I ended up working with a company out of Sweden on sustainability, and became a consultant in that field. But what I learned really quickly is there was such resistance to that term, and you can’t imagine why. Oh my gosh, you cannotchange a cultureuntil the people in it change. I mean, you can fire them, you can get rid of them, which sometimes is the right thing to do. But really you can’t delegate the way people think. You can’t do that top-down.

So I did that for quite a few years, and I did a lot of corporate training for really big companies and universities and even cities. And then I found hypnosis, which really is a whole different way to take my career. But in actuality, it’s the same thing. It’s just a different tool. With hypnosis, we’re looking at changing people’s perspectives with the way they think and the way they behave, because emotion drives all behavior. And so the last 12 years of my life, I’ve been working with individuals, helping them to change.

And a few years ago during Covid, Covid changed everything for everybody in some way, I decided I’m in the last third of my life. What’s my legacy really going to

Roseann and Clara Sunwoo—How Did Roseann And Clara Sunwoo Build A Successful Women’s Fashion Brand?

Hear how a great idea and hard work made this dynamic duo succeed

This is one of those amazing stories that you’ve heard 100 times but it never ceases to make me smile. Clara Sunwoo and her husband came to the United States from Seoul, Korea in 1975 with two suitcases and $1,000. Now, 49 years later, Clara and her daughter Roseann are riding the wave of the very successful fashion business they built together,ClaraSunwoo. I have one of their jackets and I love it. I am honored that they are part of ourbook,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and myself, and even more honored to bring them to you today. Enjoy.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Wisdoms for entrepreneurs from Roseann and Clara Sunwoo:

• You need to be fearless.All the women out there, if you are having second thoughts or you have a great idea, don’t wait on it. Give it a try.
• Learn as you go.
• We saw a need and we filled it(veryBlue Ocean Strategy!).
• Just take thatleap of faith.A lot of women in business, or women who want to go into business or become entrepreneurs, have fabulous ideas, but think they have to have all the certificates or degrees. You don’t.
• Sometimes I would be the youngest female or the only female in a meeting.We as women really need to empower ourselves and get to another place here.
• The way you get through the tough times is with the people that surround you.Go with your gut in the beginning and take those risks.
• Data is so important.Pay attention to what it is telling you.
• Really love yourself.
• Never say you’ll never do something or never say no to something,because you might find you’ll be surprised.

To connect with Roseann and Clara, you can find them onLinkedIn,Facebook,Twitter,Instagram,YouTube,Vimeoand their company websiteClara Sunwoo.

Want more on how to succeed as an entrepreneur, especially as a woman? Start with these:

• Marsha Friedman—How A Woman Entrepreneur Took A Little Idea And Turned It Into A Big Business
• Amanda Zuckerman—How To Turn A Big Idea Into A Huge Blue Ocean Success!
• Finding The “Holes in the Cheese” To Build A Successful Business! Meet Kim Shepherd
• Stephanie Breedlove: How Women Entrepreneurs Can Think Bigger, Build Sustainable Businesses, and Change the World

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, I’m your host and your guide. And as you know, my job is to get you off the brink. We want to bring you people who are going to help you see, feel and think in new ways. Because it’s only when you see something and you feel it that your brain can start to think about, how can I apply this? And how can I do it in a way that’s going to help me soar? And that’s what we love to do.

I have today two marvelous women who are going to help share with you their own journey. And when you listen to their journey, you’re going to go, oh my, if they can, I can. And what kind of wisdom have they brought to their whole industry of women’s fashion? I met Roseann and Clara Sunwoo as I was doing our book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success.And their pages in here are just gorgeous.

What we did was, we collected the wisdoms of 102 women, and Roseann and Clara came to us, I think, from Robin Spizman, one of our co-authors, and we were so excited to share. So first, I want to tell you a little bit about them. I want to thank them for joining us. It’s going to be fun to really dig into two creative women who have built something unusual. I’m wearing their jacket today and their blouse and their pants and I wear it all the time. It’s so comfortable and it looks good and it’s really designed for me without them knowing me.

So who are they? Clara Sunwoo, the name of the company that they founded. They make clothing that’s strong and feminine and every day ready. It’s true. Since 1997, Clara Sunwoo and her daughter Roseann have worked together to create timeless designs that fuse classic styles with modern edge. And this fabric is really fascinating. You’re going to really understand it as they talk about it. Their goal is to have women not just look, but experience and feel edgy, empowered and beautiful. Yes I do, it’s so much fun. We’re a cross-generation ageless lifestyle brand. Every design they create must be wrinkle free, travel friendly and effortless.

They know me. I’ve already got 3 million miles on American, over 100,000 this year alone. Every week on a plane. You need clothes that move with you. So today we’re going to hear about their journey, because I do think it’s a journey that is going to inspire you. It’s going to absolutely celebrate what they’ve done, but elevate what you can do and educate you about how to think about what’s happening and what change can bring to you and your brand or your business. Roseann and Clara, thank you for being here today.

Clara and Roseann Sunwoo:Oh, thank you so much for having us. We’re really happy to be here.

Andi Simon:I can’t tell you how, and it’s really fun to share them. Everytime I see them, I go, oh, this is so much fun. Please share your story because it’s a very touching story. It touches my heart and I don’t want to share it for you. Please.

Roseann Sunwoo:So one of the things I really want to let everyone know that is listening is we did not go to fashion design school. We’re not from that background. My mother and father came to the United States from Seoul, Korea back in 1975 with two suitcases and $1,000. $1,000. So you can imagine with $1,000, you’re not buying much. Then I was born and I remember I became an unknowing apprentice in the family. So I know, mom, we have a lot of photos in the family. We’re wearing the same watermelon prints as children. We would make everything. We made curtains, pillowcases. We were hands on, and it really came from necessity, the talent to make things, to use your hands. We were not going in a direction, going into fashion in any sense. However, we were making clothing for friends, family or for ourselves. And a lot of people would ask you all the time to make clothing for them.

Andi Simon:My mother’s mother came here from Russia through England to here, and she was a seamstress, not an uncommon job or career. I’m not sure she thought of it as a career. It was what made enough money for her to raise six children. So I fully appreciate this. As you were making clothes for others, what did you discover?

Roseann Sunwoo:They were gorgeous, like all shapes and body types. What we noticed is, the fashion industry, and we were feeling the same thing, they put us in categories. I felt like women had to, if you’re this type of person or this age bracket, you must look like this. And it was really tiring and it was really just in our minds, we’re very modern and we’re very forward thinking. And it seemed backwards to us, and it was really frustrating to try things on where things were ill-fitting.

I think what we’re known for as designers is the perfect fit. We’re both perfectionists, we’re very detail oriented. And it’s the subtle, the subtle work that we do that really just, things drape well and we understand the body, the form, really well because we work with so many different body shapes, so many different women. And it really allowed us to understand how to design better. And also we knew who our audience was. We realized there were so many women out there that were feeling the same things we were.

When we talk about an Ageless Lifestyle Brand, we have so many different types of women wear our collection, and it’s really about how you put it together. And I want to go back to the way you feel. Looking good is wonderful because it’s going to make you feel good when you look good. But it’s really the feeling, the empowered on the inside. And when you wear fabrics that let you move and breathe and you feel really comfortable in it, but it’s high fashion because we’re not cutting corners, I think that’s going to empower women, and it’s going to make them really elevate in so many ways. I think that’s important. And that’s our main reason for creating the line. We did it in 1997.

We started with a capsule collection. There was a lot of risk because we used our life savings. I think we said, I had approached my mother and I said, why don’t we create a very tight collection, debut it at a tradeshow and just see what happens. And I was actually possibly heading towards law school, being the good immigrant child, everyone expects you to go to law school or med school, that

Hear about perseverance, pivoting, and putting yourself out there

In today’s podcast I bring you Gemma Toner, former media and telecommunications innovator and one of the 102 amazing women leaders featured in our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and myself. Gemma and I talk about not being afraid to take a job or head up a project even if you think you’re not 100% quailified. Believe in yourself and offer yourself as a smart person who can grow—that’s when amazing things can happen. Listen in!

Watch and listen to our conversation here

8 takeaways from Gemma for your own journey

1. Just start. And then keep going.This the best advice Gemma received from one of her mentors.
2. Everybody makes mistakes.Learn and start again.
3. Find people that are like you that can support you, in good times and bad. We all need a support team.
4. Don’t forget where you came from.Remember your roots.
5. Be open to lateral moves.There are many ways to build your career. Even roles you don’t like can lead to great opportunities.
6. Sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know.Be open and curious.
7. Share your wisdom and experiences with other women.As you rise, lift others.
8. Don’t let setbacks limit you.Handle the disappointment, learn as much as you can from it, then let it go and move on.

To connect with Gemma, you can find her onLinkedIn,Facebook,Twitter,Instagram,YouTube, and her company websiteTone Networks. You can also email her [email protected].

For more on becoming the best you can be, here are some of our favorite podcasts:

• Elizabeth Rosenberg—Can An Extraordinary Coach Bring Out The Unseen Beauty In Your Strengths?
• Jodi Flynn Takes You From Dreaming To Doing
• Shayna Bergman—How To Identify Your Values And Live Them Every Day

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon and as you know, I’m your host and your guide, and I love doing podcasts so that you can see, feel and think in new ways. Why is that important? Well, these are very fast changing times, and regardless of who you are or where you are, something is pushing against you a little bit and you’re not quite sure. Do I like it? Don’t I like it? Most humans hate change. It creates pain in the brain. But it’s time to change. And the sooner you make change your friend, the more happy you’re going to be.

My job is to get you off the brink. So today I have an amazing woman here. Gemma Toner is a fabulous woman. She’s part of our bookWomen Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success. You can see behind us, and I’m going to show you her picture. And each of them provide five wisdoms. And what I love doing is sharing their wisdom on the podcast because sometimes it comes alive even better. Gemma, thank you for being with me today. You’re smiling, I love you.

Gemma Toner:I am so grateful to be here. Thank you.

Andi Simon:Gemma and I are going to have a great lunch after our podcast. But first we have to get through our podcast. Let me tell you about her so that you, our viewers and our listeners, know why you should listen up because it’s important.

Gemma is a media and telecommunications leader known for driving innovation. In 2017, she createdTone Networks. And we’re going to talk about Tone today as a SAS microlearning platform designed for early- to mid-career women. Although as I looked at them, I think it’s for all women to stay in advance in the workplace. She’s been a board member of publicly traded companies including Sandvine, and is currently Co-Chair of the Women Business Collaborative.

Before foundingTone Networks, Gemma held executive positions in media and technology for AMC and Cablevision Media, running the fastest ISP in the country. We’re going to hear more about that in a moment. She’s been granted patents for data analytics, and she proudly serves on the board of the global humanitarian organization Concern Worldwide. Don’t you love that bio, audience? I think this is a wonderful time because you had that great article in February of 2023 about The Great Breakup. So here you’re going to hear about Gemma in the corporate world and then founding a new company to help women do even better. And this is something that is extremely important to me and to her. Tell us about your journey. How did you get into corporate? What was it like?

Gemma Toner:All right. Let me tell you about my journey, because it is not one that people immediately think of or hear. And that is that. I think of myself as a mother and a wife and a business person, a technologist, and I’m a data geek, but I’m also an immigrant. And that’s important because it’s such a strong part of my identity. And it’s also kind of driven me throughout my whole life. And so you ask how I got into corporate? Well, I’ll tell you.

My parents immigrated from Northern Ireland when I was about 4 or 6 months old. When you’re an immigrant, and this was back in the 60s, your family actually became your friends. And at least for our family, we were packed up every summer and spent time with all our family that my parents had left back in Ireland. So I have this kind of bifurcated life which sometimes I didn’t always appreciate.

You ask me again how I got into corporate. Well, I kind of looked at my dad and saw what he accomplished, and I was the oldest in a family of three girls.I thought, well, I’ve got to do better because he came here literally with nothing. He had very little money, very little education, but he had the dream that the American dream was possible. And you know what? It really was for him. And he became wildly successful here in the United States.So I had some big shoes to fill. And my dad didn’t go to college.

So the first step for me to get to corporate America was actually to get to college. And so I did. I got into Villanova and had a great experience there and ended up studying accounting. That wasn’t necessarily the most strategic. I happen to be really good at it. I happen to also be one of the few women in the room, and I didn’t mind that. So it was a great school, great experience. And I popped into corporate America and my first job was at a great company now called Ernst and Young. And I got to spend a lot of time at Time Inc. and again, this was again for this immigrant girl, this was corporate.

America was not something I grew up with. I did not know about mentors or sponsors. I didn’t even know that those names or terms existed. I certainly didn’t know anything about networking. But what I did know was that, keep your head down and work really hard. So I got to see corporate America kind of in its heyday. When you’re working for those types of firms, you actually get to see the world at a pretty high level, even though you might be doing pretty mundane things as an entry level employee.

But what it turned me on to and what I’m very grateful for was I got to really learn about the media business. And I realized pretty quickly that, Hey, this is actually where I want to be. And so I came home to my father, who had worked so hard and given us so much opportunity and said, Dad, I really don’t like this accounting thing very much. I think I want to try something else. And he said, Gemma, you can do anything. And he didn’t make me feel bad that I had just spent four years studying accounting, which is a great degree. I highly recommend it. Working at Ernst and Young was a great experience. But, it was time for me to make the jump.

You’ll hear often in my career, I kind of jump off cliffs and eventually fly. It doesn’t always go seamlessly, but it happens. And so I jumped. And so it wasn’t easy to have someone to have a media company hire an accountant, because certainly they didn’t think I had a marketing background and I didn’t, but I was entry level. And so it was a great time to kind of jump in and make a career switch. So I was fortunate enough. I actually started out at a company called Rainbow Advertising. So I got to see the world of advertising. And then I landed this fantastic job working for a woman. Her name is Katie McEnroe at AMC Networks. And that was where I had that first moment of: I see her, I want to be her.

Andi Simon:Ah.

Gemma Toner:And she was president of this network. We were in heavy distribution and marketing mode. And it was run by Josh Sapan at the time, another fantastic human being to work for. And it was probably one of the best experiences I could ever have. I got to see so much. I got to do so much. We were all so supportive of each other. We were very aggressive, but in an okay way, at a time in the telecommunications industry where it was really a bonanza of creativity and technology and distribution, it

Learn how to nurture your unique gifts for a career you really love.

I bring to you today Lorraine Hariton, a brilliant women with a brilliant career who shows us that success doesn’t have to come in a straight line, it can have many twists and turns. As one of the 102 women featured in our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored by Edie Fraser, Robyn Freedman Spizman and myself, Lorraine is President and CEO ofCatalyst, a powerhouse non-profit dedicated to helpingwomen thrive, from the shop floor to the C-suite, so that everyone can be successful by their own definition. What I love is that Catalyst not only focuses on how women can be effective and improve their capabilities and skills, but on changing the work environment by creating workplaces that work for women. Want to learn about the future of work? Listen in.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

Key takeaways from my conversation with Lorraine

• Life is a journey.And that journey is to understand what your passions are, what gets you excited, what gets you up every day enjoying it.
• In terms of your skills,what do you have with which you can contribute the most to this world?
• There are lots of chapters in life.Make sure that you have the resiliency and the learning mindset to go from one chapter to the next.
• Life can take you in different directions, but you’ve got to be a lifelong learner.You’ve got to lean into your strengths.
• Periods of transition can be real opportunities.
• Align your strengths and what you really love to dobehind your passions.

To connect with Lorraine, you can find her onLinkedIn.

Want to know more about women breaking barriers in the workforce? Start with these:

• Blog:How Can Women Overcome The Roadblocks To Building Their Businesses?
• Blog:Best Tips And Tricks For Women To Work In Male-Dominated Industries
• Podcast:Kerry Flynn Barrett—Learn Why So Many Brilliant Women Have Ditched The Corporate Ladder To Start Their Own Business
• Pocast:Jennifer McCollum—How Will You Change The Face Of Women’s Leadership In Your Organization?

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• Our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, I’m your host and your guide.And as you know, because so many of you come to listen to our podcast, my job is to get you off the brink. I want you to see, feel and think in new ways so you can change, and the times are changing quickly now. I look for guests who are going to help you understand things from a fresh perspective.

Today I have Lorraine Hariton here with me. She is a marvelous person who is in our new book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success. And when you hear what she’s going to tell you today, you’ll know whyWomen Mean Businesshas been such an absolutely amazing experience. Every time I open the book, it sheds new light on what women are doing in business. Lorraine’s bio: She’s president and CEO ofCatalyst. Now, if you’re not familiar with Catalyst, it’s a global nonprofit working with the world’s most powerful CEOs and leading companies to build workplaces that work for women.

Catalyst’s vision and mission are to accelerate progress for women through workplace inclusion. This lifelong passion for Lorraine has helped her build a career with senior level positions in Silicon Valley as an entrepreneur and executive, and beginning at IBM, Lorraine then served in the administration in the Department of State and developed the global STEM Alliance at the New York Academy of Sciences. She has also served on the UN Women Global Innovation Coalition For Change, the Clayman Institute for Gender Research at Stanford University, and the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs and Executives, but it is as president of Catalyst that I met Lorraine. And that’s what we’re going to talk about today: about what organizations can do to really build workplaces that work for women. Lorraine, thank you so much for coming today.

Lorraine Hariton:Andrea, thank you so much. It’s my pleasure to be here.

Andi Simon:It’s so much fun. Tell the audience more about your journey because I can read the bio. But you’ve had a wonderful career with a passion and purpose, and I’d like you to share that if you could.

Lorraine Hariton:So first of all, I want to say that the career that you just talked about is very different from the career I might have imagined when I was young. It’s gone in a lot of different directions. And I look forward to sort of talking about that. So when I was a child, my biggest influence was really my mother, specifically when she came into the workplace, which was in the 50s. She was originally a teacher. And like many of her generation, she went back. She left the workplace when she had her three children. But then she went back and got a master’s degree and eventually a PhD in psychology, actually around women’s sexual fantasies during intercourse. It was very controversial. She ended up on the front cover ofPsychology Today, and then she had the next phase, a career as a psychologist and a lecturer out on Long Island. So she really gave me a sense that you can have different phases in your life, you can accomplish different things, and women should have independent, strong careers.

So she was a big influence. Then the other big influence on me was, I had dyslexia, I still have dyslexia. And because of that, I had certain real strengths and certain things that were limitations. I wasn’t very popular. I wasn’t a great athlete, but I was good in math. I ended up using that math ability to have a career in technology very early on. In fact, when I was in college — I originally went to college in upstate New York, at Hamilton College — my calculus professor suggested that I take an independent study computer science course at Hamilton College before there were even computers on campus. We just had a teletype terminal into the Air Force base in Rome, New York. But I wrote my own computer program. I fell in love with it, and it caused me to transfer to Stanford, where even at Stanford, they didn’t actually have a computer science degree. Undergraduate is math sciences, math, computer science, statistics, and operations research.But it really gave me this great foundation into something that my first passion was really around: computers and the application of computers into solving problems.

So I transferred to Stanford. I got a sense of that environment. I ended up taking a job, actually, back in New York for American Airlines, doing a big linear programming model for ferrying fuel around the American Airline system. But, I decided I didn’t really like just programming. I wanted to do something that was more people oriented within the computer industry. So at that time, IBM was a big place to work. It was like the Google or the Apple of the time.

So I got a job actually in sales working for IBM, and I worked in the apparel industry in New York, knocking on doors, selling mid-sized computers to the apparel industry, which was really fun. I really enjoyed it and I excelled at it. So I decided I wanted to be on the business side of the technology industry. I went back to Harvard Business School, got my MBA, and decided to go back to California working for IBM, the next level in the sales track at IBM. And there was the other reason I went back to IBM: to look into all the jobs at Harvard Business School that IBM had for women in leadership roles. It had the ability to balance career and family and a proven track record of enabling women to do that. I was really looking for a workplace where I could be successful balancing career and family, which is still the number one challenge for women in business.

And, through my work at Catalyst, I see that every day. So I went back to IBM, but eventually I went into Silicon Valley. IBM actually acquired a company in Silicon Valley. I went to work for them. And then I ended up having a career at IBM. So I started in Silicon Valley, started at IBM, and then I left them to go to become an executive at a mid-sized company. And eventually I actually did two startups in Silicon Valley. So I had a career at all these different levels.

But in my early 50s, I wanted to really do something that was more impactful. I had had a successful career there and I became involved in women’s leadership issues because really that was a defining thing around my success and my lived experience. I initially got involved in the Forum for Women Entrepreneurs and Executives that became WaterMark. That was a women’s leadership network in Silicon Valley. I really benefited from my relationships that I had with women in Silicon Valley. We all bonded together. We even did great trips, like we went to India and Vietnam together. I went to the Clayman Institute for Gender Research. I then decided to, after I left my second st

Hear why a great customer experience meanseverything

I first interviewed Melissa Copeland for this podcast inMay of 2022and loved her story so much that I want to share it, and her, with you again. Melissa had a wonderful career, as so many women have had, only to discover that flying all over the world was not great for her family, or herself. So what did she do? Pivoted and launchedBlue Orbit Consulting which focuses on improving customer interactions with her clients’ products and services. Her company’s motto: “We help clients deliver outstanding customer service by combining the best of technology and people for world-class customer experiences.” Clients love this approach, and you will too. Enjoy.

Watch and listen to our conversation here

The key? Delight your customers.

Since 2014, Melissa Copeland and her team at Blue Orbit have worked with dozens of Fortune 500 organizations to deliver dramatic improvements in customer-centered experience. As a testament to her pragmatic approach, her clients often achieve benefits in excess of 10x their investment. Her goal is to craft solutions that empower employees, delight customers, and astonish owners.

The topic ofculture changeis one Melissa and I know a great deal about

As you’ll hear in our podcast, Melissa and I learn from each other as we share our ideas, experiences and know-how. You can read in my book,On the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights, how frustrating it is for companies, then and now, to address the core service imperative of their organization’s business. My hope is that you take away some great learning around how to step back and look at your own business with fresh eyes, and see where you might need to make some changes that will make all the diference.

If you’d like to reach out to Melissa, you can connect with her onLinkedIn, her websiteBlueOrbitConsulting.com, or email her [email protected].

Want to know more about how to make your business’s customer experiences great ones? Start here:

• Podcast:Randi Busse—How To Turn Customer Experience Into A Competitive Advantage
• Podcast:Carmen Effron—Digitization of the Customer Journey
• Blog:5 Ways to Find New Customers. They are all around you!

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• My third book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, I’m your host and your guide. My job is to get you off the brink and I go looking for people who have really interesting ideas to share with you to help you see, feel and think in new ways. That’s why today I have Melissa Copeland. And Melissa is here to talk about the customers of tomorrow, and how to serve them. But what’s really interesting is her own journey and what she sees going on in the market, and how she can help you see it through that fresh lens that I want you to have. Remember, time to get off the brink, and the times they are changing. So let’s soar together. Melissa, thank you for joining me today.

Melissa Copeland:Thanks for having me.

Andi Simon:Share with the listeners, who is Melissa and when and how did you get to where you are now? And why are you so interested in it? Please share your story.

Melissa Copeland:Sure, it’s a wandering path, but I think many people have those nowadays. It was less common when I started working, but I actually started as a documentary producer producing travel documentaries and traveling around the globe doing that which I love. It didn’t take long, about two years, for me to learn that it was really hard to afford my rent and lunch and a bus pass on the salary a documentary producer makes. So I went to business school, and business school wasn’t at all what I expected. It was much more of a structured education versus some of the intellectual inquiries that I was expecting to find. So if there is such a thing, it sounds like an oxymoron, but I was a bit of a countercultural business school student coming out of grad school.

I landed in a job in strategy at what was then Ameritech, now AT&T. I was sent to one of the wholesale divisions. So think of the really technical engineering, kind of in the more old-fashioned parts of the company. And here I was, this kid who had been a documentary producer. And my background was in history and writing. And I learned to speak engineering, and I learned to speak pension. I had more fun than I ever thought I would in the corporate world. So I was rotated in the seven years that I was there, through almost every functional area. I got a taste of strategy, sales, marketing, and wound up doing two types of international assignments. One was a startup based in Chicago. And the second was an assignment based in Brussels, Belgium for two years. And those were amazing.

A couple of the things that I really learned was that the language of business is really one of figuring out how to connect with people, and how to define problems, and then organize toward a solution, whether it’s through collaboration, whether it’s through directing, or self-directed teams, or any of those pieces. And so one of the things I didn’t expect that I’ve used my entire career since then, was during that time in Brussels, the techniques that you learned growing up in the United States to influence people with money, or sales incentives, or performance incentives, didn’t work the same way in a different culture and context. And that notion of what is my culture and context? And how do I get the results I need?

One of the things I learned was, in the US, if you wanted to get something done, you have a meeting, you divide up the tasks, and everybody goes in, does it. In the situation I was in, in Brussels, if you had a meeting, the way to get people engaged was to give everybody the opportunity to participate in the brainstorming, right? So no matter what it was, if you call it brainstorming, people were highly engaged, because everyone wanted a piece of the ideas and to really feel like, what would they be called, an influencer, but to really be part of the solution, and then folks would happily go and participate in terms of behavior change. So that has actually become a signature part of the consulting I do today.

Some from that role, I moved through a couple of different roles, but I stayed in that arena of really working on customer experience and employee experience, and helping folks move through changes that almost always benefit customer experience and customer loyalty. And that’s when I would say my love affair with customer service and contact center organization started.

Andi Simon:You formed your company Blue Orbit Consulting in 2014. Typically, I would start any interview like this and read your résumé. But I really prefer you to talk about this journey because it’s a setup for what’s happened since you set up your own company. So how did you come about? Your insights are extremely valuable today. We don’t motivate people by giving them more money that doesn’t do anything for the research work. You can give them more money, but it doesn’t mobilize them. It doesn’t motivate them. It’s not what makes them work. There’s something that took you from being inside to being a consultant having your own company. What was the catalyst?

Melissa Copeland:So I worked for many years for a consulting firm called The Northridge Group and helped build the firm, and was able to be the generalist moving across a lot of areas. The firm had tremendous success. And I have one of those hard learnings. After about 12 years there, my kids were eight and five, and I was continuing to travel almost every week. And no matter where I was, I was on the wrong continent for somebody. And we got to a point where more often than not, it was my kids, you know, or team members or clients. But it really became a challenge that it was my kids that were on the wrong side of that. So I left and I wasn’t sure what I was going to do. And that lasted, that break lasted about two months.

And we learned that I was terrible at carpooling, that I hated doing laundry, and got rid of all of our household help. But, former clients and colleagues started calling with projects and saying, hey, you’ve always been really good and helped me think through hard problems, will you come help me do this global technical support? Will you come take a look at this process problem in my organization? And that’s fundamentally how Blue Orbit was born.

So in 2014, I formed Blue Orbit. It was just me, and a couple of high school and college babysitters taking care of my kids, you know, before and after school. And as the firm grew, I really drove more focus around not just taking every phone call, though anyone that calls and says, can you help me think through this hard problem, I really enjoy hard problems. So I’m happy to help think them through, but really, drove more focus around the pieces that I think are really important as businesses grow and move forward. And that is thinking through not just the customer journey, and some of the buzzwords around that, but also t

Hear how a family firm can remember its roots while focusing on the future

As they say, family is family and business is business. But in many cases, the two can coexist, often quite profitably. Did you know that almost 80% of the businesses in the U.S. are owned and run by families? As acorporate anthropologist, aculture change expertand a daughter raised in a family business, I have a particularly strong interest in family firms, which is why I’m so excited to bring to you Dylan Rexling, the fifth generation to work in his family’s farm operations in southwestern Indiana. He read my bookOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heightsand was inspired to incorporate many of its teachings into the way he runs his company. Whether or not you have a family firm, listen in to learn about running a successful business.

Dylan is that rare business owner who values every employee and actually listens to his customers.

Key takeaways from our conversation:

• Get to know your employees. He has a monthly Friday breakfast where everyone talks about who they are, why they’re at the company, and what their goals are.
• Admit you’re not perfect.Dylan’s message to his workers: “My door’s open. Come see me. If we do something that we shouldn’t have done, or we said it in a way that we shouldn’t have, come talk to us because we don’t know if you don’t tell us.”
• Culture is very important in a business.He specifically hired culture experts who brought in the concept of culture to the organization.
• Always be willing to learn and get better.There’s always room to go a step higher.
• Do everything you can to service your customer.If they need something, do everything in your power to say yes, even if it’s not easy. The old saying is still true: the customer is first.
• Treat your employees well. And your customers.Dylan writes an anniversary card to every one of his employees every time they hit an anniversary date. “I just write a little thank you that says, ‘I really appreciate your contributions to our team and look forward to working with you in the future.'” He also sends handwritten notes to customers thanking them for their business. “I think those little things are what matter.”
• Take a step back and look at your business from a high level.“And I think you’ll be very happy that you did so well,” he notes.

To connect with Dylan, you can find him onLinkedIn,Facebook,Twitteror hiswebsitePFL Logistics.

Want to learn more about the importance of culture, especially in family firms?

• Podcast:Jake Manthei—A Family Firm That Lives Blue Ocean Strategy®
• Podcast:Amy Bruske—A Guide for Sustaining Great Family Businesses
• Podcast:Marcella Bremer—Build a Better Business With an Amazing, Positive Culture

Additional resources for you

• My two award-winning books:Rethink: Smashing The Myths of Women in BusinessandOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights
• My third book,Women Mean Business: Over 500 Insights from Extraordinary Leaders to Spark Your Success, co-authored with Edie Fraser and Robyn Freedman Spizman
• Our website:Simon Associates Management Consultants

Read the transcript of our podcast here

Andi Simon:Welcome toOn the Brink With Andi Simon.I’m Andi Simon, I’m your host and your guide. And as you know, what I love to do is find people that are going to help you see, feel and think in new ways because that’s how you open your mind and begin to see opportunities. We often say, the future is all around us, it’s just not widely distributed yet. But what if what’s happening is something you could see so that you can understand it? Maybe I can as well, because in some ways, the story that you’re going to hear today is going to help you rethink what you’re doing and begin to open that door so that you can get off the brink.

I have with me today, Dylan Rexing. I’m honored to share him with you. I met him out in Indianapolis at aVistagegroup, and I think what they’re doing is transformational to an industry that’s sluggish. I’m going to let him tell you more about it, but let me tell you about his bio. Dylan Rexing is president and CEO of Rexing Companies, an Evansville-based network of family-owned and operated companies. So if you have a family firm or are thinking of building one, this is really good insights to share.

Dylan is fifth generation in his family’s farm operations, where he grew up learning the value of hard work and financial responsibility. But under his leadership, the Logistics Division ofPFL Logisticshas earned recognition as one of the 5,000 fastest growing private companies for the past four years. I’m going to let him tell you his story, but I think you’re going to enjoy his journey because it’ll change your own story about what’s possible. If only you can open your mind to see and then do some observation into innovation. Dylan, thank you for joining me today. I’m so excited to have you.

Dylan Rexing:Yeah, thanks for having me. Good seeing you again.

Andi Simon:It’s good to see you again. Dylan said he was away and read my book and I went, Oh, isn’t that good reading on the beach? And I appreciate it. Dylan, please, let’s hear your story. Your journey as you were sharing it with me is really a perfect setup for today’s talk.

Dylan Rexing:So, as you had mentioned, I’m generation five in our family business. When I took over the family operation, we were really just an agricultural-based company. We farm about 3000 acres. We had 120,000 chickens. And I took over out of college. I have a bachelors in accounting. And I determined that I didn’t want everything that we did to be out of our control. So as a farming operation, we’re not in control of the weather. So when we plant our crops is not determined by us, the yields that we get are also determined by Mother Nature. Then when we take it to market, it’s really what the market bears.

And so I sort of took over our organization. We still farm. It’s still part of our legacy. Farmers are a backbone of the American economy. I don’t want to necessarily downplay that by any means. It’s still an important part of our business. But I sort of took our business and made a full 360. We have about 90 employees today in the supply chain space. And so we have three companies: cold storage, warehouse trucks and a trucking company where we have trucks and drivers, and then a freight company where we sort of work with our customers and partner with our customers to move freight all over the country.

And so, for me, as you mentioned, I was on vacation last week and you were nice enough to give me a copy of your bookOn the Brink: A Fresh Lens to Take Your Business to New Heights, and I read it and talked about how you sort of put on a different lens and look at the world in a different way. It resonated with me. If you get an email from me, at the very bottom underneath my signature it says: “The most dangerous phrase in the English language is ‘as we’ve always done it.'”

Andi Simon:Dylan, you have no idea how many clients hire me to help them change that. The first thing they say is, No, we don’t do it that way. And I say, Then you don’t need me. If that’s the way you’re going to do it, the habits will drive you. But the times are changing, and maybe those habits are no longer viable or valuable or reliable for you.

But, you know, you have a curious mind. And as you and I were talking, that curiosity factor is not to be underestimated. How did you begin to figure out the logistics part? Or, you could have abandoned where you were, but you didn’t. You could have sold it, which you haven’t. But now you’ve taken a bigger picture and have begun to develop a new set of solutions for the whole supply chain of. And I have a hunch there’s some interesting new things coming as well. How did you begin? Where did it start?

Dylan Rexing:Well, believe it or not, you might wonder, how does agriculture and supply chain tie together? And the fact of the matter is, it’s very common for farmers to own supply chain-driven businesses. For example, farmers have to have semis and trailers to take product out of the fields and take them to market. But they only do that for several weeks or a month or so, two months a year. So you buy this equipment and it just sort of collects dust per se.

So the way it started was, we had all this equipment lying around that we were trying to figure out, What do we do with it? And then the cold storage business is kind of the diamond in the middle that sort of connects it all. Our cold storage business: we have customers, big and small, from large poultry companies to bakeries to anything in the middle. And so those all tie in because of the stuff that we store in our warehouse. Our cold storage food product that we store, it has to get to market. It has to get to the grocery store, or it has to get to a plant to be further processed. And so it was all sort of tied together through a supply chain lens.

Andi Simon:Now your clients come to you for any particular reason? Have you differentiated your cold storage in some fashion? Is it fully integrated? You make it simple and easy for them. What are the kind of core attributes of it?

Dylan Rexing:So we like to tell folks, we’re a one-stop shop. So you can call us and we can store you