Principled

We’ve officially wrapped season eight of the Principled Podcast and are taking a break for the holidays. Stay tuned for more conversations on culture, ethics, and compliance in the coming calendar year.

Happy holidays!

It’s no secret that writing a code of conduct doesn’t change your company culture overnight. It’s important to develop training that educates your employees on what’s included in your code, and how those elements apply to their day-to-day work. But how can you do that in a way that makes your code dynamic and accessible? On this Principled Podcast episode, host Jim Walton talks to Chris Dunstan, the Chief Compliance Officer & Group General Counsel at SPX FLOW, about how the company tailored its code of conduct training to better reflect the responsibilities of employees, while also keeping the material interactive and connected to its evolved brand. The training has received enthusiastic industry recognition, winning gold at this year’s Brandon Hall Awards for Best Advance in Compliance Training. More importantly, the training has reached a record-high completion rate across SPX FLOW’s global offices. 

 

Featured guest: Chris Dunstan

 

Chris Dunstan is a versatile legal leader with an aptitude for legal operations, strategy, and optimizing the intersection of business and the law. He is the Chief Compliance Officer & Group General Counsel at SPX FLOW, a diversified manufacturer of industrial equipment with operations in more than 30 countries. In this role, he manages the global litigation docket and compliance program and leads a team responsible for all commercial legal activities for multiple product portfolios. Prior to joining SPX FLOW, Chris was the general counsel at Lucifer Lighting and spent more than a decade working as the senior litigation counsel for Ericsson. 

Chris has spent much of his career helping both public and private companies navigate complex legal issues in dynamic, highly regulated industries such as telecommunications, consumer products, and industrial equipment manufacturing. He always strives to share his deep functional expertise in high-stakes litigation, IP protection and licensing, foreign and domestic regulatory compliance (FCPA / UK Bribery Act / GDPR / CCPA), and commercial transactions.  

 

Featured host: Jim Walton

 

Jim Walton is a member of LRN’s Ethics & Compliance Advisory Services Team – with over 25 years of professional experience in corporate, institutional and government settings, spanning the fields of ethics and compliance; environment, health and safety; and energy management.

Since 2002, Jim has been passionately dedicated to corporate ethics and compliance – designing, developing, implementing and enhancing constantly-evolving, comprehensive, best-in-class, global ethics and compliance programs. Jim has extensive experience in writing, producing and communicating codes of conduct and corporate policies; designing, managing and implementing ethics & compliance risk assessments; implementing anti-compliance and bribery initiatives; conducting third-party due diligence reviews; and helping managers at all levels become better ethical leaders.

Jim is a Certified Compliance and Ethics Professional.

 

For a transcript of this podcast, please visit the episode page at LRN.com.

As today’s societal issues continue to mount, employees are turning to the workplace as one of the safer spaces for debate and a primary source of community. In fact, data from a special edition of Edelman's 2022 Trust Barometer—specifically analyzing trust in the workplace—notes that 78% of employees trust their employer over other established institutions and connections. So, how can companies leverage trust and adapt their own practices to better address employee concerns? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, host Emily Miner explores key findings from the Trust in the Workplace report with David M. Bersoff, the Head of Research at the Edelman Trust Institute. Listen in as the two discuss what drives trust and how employers can strengthen trust in—and beyond—the workplace. 

Get a copy of the Edelman's Trust in the Workplace special report. 

 

Read our blog post on takeaways from this report. 

 

Featured guest: David M. Bersoff, Ph.D.

As the Head of Research for the Edelman Trust Institute, Dr. Bersoff is the lead researcher on all of Edelman's trust-oriented thought leadership, including the Edelman Trust Barometer. He also leads the Institute's research-based collaborations. Prior to joining Edelman in 2016, David spent 18 years as a consumer insights and marketing strategy consultant at The Futures Company. In his last 5 years with the organization, he served as its Chief Insights Officer and was a member of its global board of directors. In that role, he ran the Global Insights Group and drove the research, data analysis, IP creation and product development strategy for all of their syndicated consumer insights offers – Yankelovich MONITOR, Multicultural MONITOR, Global MONITOR, Health and Wellness MONITOR, Financial Services MONITOR, and the TRU Youth MONITOR.  In addition to his background in IP development and insights product management, David has also served as a trusted advisor and marketing/brand strategy consultant to major clients in industries as diverse as financial services, automotive, media, professional organizations, energy, and the military. Prior to entering the consulting world, David spent 12 years engaged in social science research at various Ivy League institutions, including 4 years as an assistant professor of social psychology and research methodology at the University of Pennsylvania.

 

Featured host: Emily Miner

Emily Miner is a director in LRN’s Ethics & Compliance Advisory practice. She counsels executive leadership teams on how to actively shape and manage their ethical culture through deep quantitative and qualitative understanding and engagement. A skilled facilitator, Emily emphasizes co-creative, bottom-up, and data-driven approaches to foster ethical behavior and inform program strategy. Emily has led engagements with organizations in the healthcare, technology, manufacturing, energy, professional services, and education industries. Emily co-leads LRN’s ongoing flagship research on E&C program effectiveness and is a thought leader in the areas of organizational culture, leadership, and E&C program impact.

Prior to joining LRN, Emily applied her behavioral science expertise in the environmental sustainability sector, working with non-profits and several New England municipalities; facilitated earth science research in academia; and contributed to drafting and advancing international climate policy goals. Emily has a Master of Public Administration in Environmental Science and Policy from Columbia University and graduated summa cum laude from the University of Florida with a degree in Anthropology.

 

For a transcript of this episode, visit https://blog.lrn.com/islands-of-civility-a-special-edelman-report-on-trust-in-the-workplace

 

 

 

In this episode of the Principled Podcast, host Susan Divers continues her conversation from Episode 11 with Tom Fox, the founder of the Compliance Podcast Network, on the changing geopolitical landscape and its impact on E&C. Listen in as the two discuss how anti-corruption is a key component of ESG, the consequences of compliance in cybersecurity, and the growing interconnectedness of risks. You can listen to Episode 11 here. 

To learn more, download a copy of Tom Fox's white paper Never the Same: Five Key Areas in Which Business Will Never Be the Same After the Russian Invasion. 

 

Featured guest: Tom Fox

Tom Fox is literally the guy who wrote the book on compliance with the international compliance best-seller The Compliance Handbook, 3rd edition, which was released by LexisNexis in May 2022. Tom has authored 23 other books on business leadership, compliance and ethics, and corporate governance, including the international best-sellers Lessons Learned on Compliance and Ethics and Best Practices Under the FCPA and Bribery Act, as well as his award-winning series "Fox on Compliance."

Tom leads the social media discussion on compliance with his award-winning blog, and is the Voice of Compliance, having founded the award-winning Compliance Podcast Network and hosting or producing multiple award-winning podcasts. He is an executive leader at the C-Suite Network, the world’s most trusted network of C-Suite leaders. He can be reached at [email protected].

 

Featured host: Susan Divers

Susan Divers is the director of thought leadership and best practices with LRN Corporation. She brings 30+ years’ accomplishments and experience in the ethics and compliance arena to LRN clients and colleagues. This expertise includes building state-of-the-art compliance programs infused with values, designing user-friendly means of engaging and informing employees, fostering an embedded culture of compliance, and sharing substantial subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance.

Prior to joining LRN, Mrs. Divers served as AECOM’s Assistant General for Global Ethics & Compliance and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer. Under her leadership, AECOM’s ethics and compliance program garnered six external awards in recognition of its effectiveness and Mrs. Divers’ thought leadership in the ethics field. In 2011, Mrs. Divers received the AECOM CEO Award of Excellence, which recognized her work in advancing the company’s ethics and compliance program.

Before joining AECOM, she worked at SAIC and Lockheed Martin in the international compliance area. Prior to that, she was a partner with the DC office of Sonnenschein, Nath & Rosenthal. She also spent four years in London and is qualified as a Solicitor to the High Court of England and Wales, practicing in the international arena with the law firms of Theodore Goddard & Co. and Herbert Smith & Co. She also served as an attorney in the Office of the Legal Advisor at the Department of State and was a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN working on the first anti-corruption multilateral treaty initiative. 

Mrs. Divers is a member of the DC Bar and a graduate of Trinity College, Washington D.C. and of the National Law Center of George Washington University. In 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ethisphere Magazine listed her as one the “Attorneys Who Matter” in the ethics & compliance area. She is a member of the Advisory Boards of the Rutgers University Center for Ethical Behavior and served as a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Practical Training from 2005-2008. She resides in Northern Virginia and is a frequent speaker, writer and commentator on ethics and compliance topics. 

Principled Podcast Transcript

Intro:

Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership, and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace change makers.

Susan Divers:

Hello and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled Podcast. I'm your host, Susan Divers, Director of Thought Leadership and Best Practices at LRN. Today, I'm continuing my conversation from episode 11 with Tom Fox on the changing geopolitical landscape and its impact on ethics and compliance. If you haven't listened to that episode yet, we highly encourage you to do so. Tom is the founder of the Compliance Podcast Network and the author of the award-Winning FCPA Compliance and Ethics Blog, as well as the Complete Compliance Handbook, which is in its third edition. Tom, welcome back to Principled Podcast.

Tom Fox:

Thank you, Susan.

Susan Divers:

Tom, in our last episode, we talked about the impact of the war in the Ukraine on compliance and ethics. And specifically on the challenges that's imposed or brought to the fore for companies and specifically for their compliance teams who hopefully have a real seat at the table in terms of dealing with those challenges and mitigating those risks. But one of the topics that underlies what we were talking about is that of conducting your business in a fair, transparent, and sustainable manner. And I'm really struck by some of the things you were saying about the need to be transparent and the need to walk the walk and talk the talk. Because if you fail to do so, we live in an age of radical transparency and easy access to social media, and moreover, it's the right thing to do.

So with that as the background, anti-corruption has long been a focus for regulators. I mean, it's probably defined yours and my careers in a lot of regards. But only recently have some people started talking about it, and you're one and I'm one, as a major component of ESG. Could you explain for our listeners how that works and the role of anti-corruption in ESG?

Tom Fox:

Sure. So ESG, in my mind, Susan, the power of ESG is that it has brought together disparate strands that have existed in every corporation for some lengthy period of time. But brought them together in a way that someone is looking at them holistically. So, I'll pick on E because that perhaps is the easiest. As a compliance officer, I never looked at environmental issues in our company. That was somebody else's responsibility.

Susan Divers:

Me either. Right.

Tom Fox:

Didn't mean there wasn't environmental compliance, but it meant that I wasn't looking at that from the compliance perspective. Now, whether it's the Chief Sustainability Officer, whether it's the Board of Directors, whether there's a Board ESG Committee, somebody's connecting compliance to environmental. And so that in and of itself is, to me, the most powerful reason to have a robust ESG program. But anti-corruption in ESG, in my opinion, Susan, I've always seen it directly in the G.

Susan Divers:

Me too.

Tom Fox:

Number one, it's a good governance issue. Number two, it is a Board of Director's issue. Number three, it's illegal and regulatory issue.

But now Susan, I'm beginning to see it and have tried to articulate, that I see it in the S component as well as sustainability. Part of it is around one of the topics we touched on our last podcast of radical transparency, that if you do business ethically and in compliance, and if there's a question raised about a supplier, a customer, a distributor, a someone you've done business with in today's era of modern social media, that you can respond to that in a way that won't hurt your business from the public perception perspective. Leaving completely aside the regulatory perspective. So, I see ABC or anti-corruption compliance now, Susan, as directly within the S of ESG as well. And I also see it in the E. So to me, it sort of bleeds across all aspects of ESG and is a key component of a best practices ESG program.

Susan Divers:

Yeah, and I'm glad you articulated it so clearly for people, because I think there's a tendency perhaps, to silo ethics and compliance and sustainability. And they really are part and parcel of the same thing. And I'm going to quote from your recent white paper in support of that. "As a fundamental threat to the rule of law, corruption hollows out institutions, corrodes public trust, and fuels popular cynicism towards effective accountable governance." And that's, I think, a quote from the U.S. Strategy on Countering Corruption. Can you talk for us and link together how anti-corruption, anti-money laundering, and sanctions all are part and parcel of the same thing and relate to ESG? I think that'd be helpful for our listeners?

Tom Fox:

So Susan, the statement you read interests me for a couple of reasons. That came out of the U.S. Strategy on Countering Corruption, and it was aimed at national governments, so national governance. And I think it's absolutely correct that corruption, money laundering, all fuel cynicisms towards effective, accountable national governance. But Susan, as you were reading that, it struck me, that is equally true about corporate governance, or the G in ESG. Because violations of the rule of law, corruption, money laundering, they all corroded trust in our corporations, and indeed fuel cynicism towards effective accountable corporate governance.

The United Nations estimates that $3 trillion is lost to the global economy annually because of bribery and corruption. The United States Department of Treasury estimates that $2 trillion is lost annually because of money laundry. That's $5 trillion taken

How do you know if your ethics and compliance program is successful? How are you capturing data and comparing it to industry benchmarks, or tracking your own company’s trends over time? In this episode of LRN’s Principled Podcast host Emily Miner, director of Advisory Services at LRN, talks about benchmarking E&C data with her colleague Derek Clune, product manager of Data & Analytics. Listen in as the two explore how benchmarking practices come to life and the role AI plays in LRN's new Catalyst Reveal solution.

 

Featured guest: Derek Clune

Derek Clune has been working in the ethics and compliance space for over 5 years with an emphasis on data and analytics. As a Product Manager at LRN, Derek is responsible for the vision of LRN’s new data and analytics platform; Catalyst Reveal. His main goal is to provide E&C professionals with more actionable data to understand their E&C program effectiveness better. Derek’s team works to create products that offer best-in-class prescriptive interventions to improve E&C programs and ease the administrative burden.

 

Featured Host: Emily Miner

Emily Miner is a director of LRN’s Ethics & Compliance Advisory services. She counsels executive leadership teams on how to actively shape and manage their ethical culture through deep quantitative and qualitative understanding and engagement. A skilled facilitator, Emily emphasizes co-creative, bottom-up, and data-driven approaches to foster ethical behavior and inform program strategy. Emily has led engagements with organizations in the healthcare, technology, manufacturing, energy, professional services, and education industries. Emily co-leads LRN’s ongoing flagship research on E&C program effectiveness and is a thought leader in the areas of organizational culture, leadership, and E&C program impact. Prior to joining LRN, Emily applied her behavioral science expertise in the environmental sustainability sector, working with non-profits and several New England municipalities; facilitated earth science research in academia; and contributed to drafting and advancing international climate policy goals. Emily has a Master of Public Administration in Environmental Science and Policy from Columbia University and graduated summa cum laude from the University of Florida with a degree in Anthropology.

 

Find the transcript for this season 8 episode at LRN.com.

As the world emerges from a pandemic mindset, we find ourselves confronting new geopolitical realities with Putin's war in the Ukraine as well as increasingly fraught relations between the US and China. How is this geopolitical landscape changing the compliance landscape? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, host Susan Divers is joined by Tom Fox, the founder of the Compliance Podcast Network and aptly accredited “Voice of Compliance.” Listen in as the two discuss the impact of geopolitics on ethics and compliance, and what issues should be top-of-mind for E&C leaders in the near future.

To learn more, download a copy of Tom Fox's white paper Never the Same: Five Key Areas in Which Business Will Never Be the Same After the Russian Invasion.

 

Featured guest: Tom Fox

Tom Fox is literally the guy who wrote the book on compliance with the international compliance best-seller The Compliance Handbook, 3rd edition, which was released by LexisNexis in May 2022. Tom has authored 23 other books on business leadership, compliance and ethics, and corporate governance, including the international best-sellers Lessons Learned on Compliance and Ethics and Best Practices Under the FCPA and Bribery Act, as well as his award-winning series "Fox on Compliance."

Tom leads the social media discussion on compliance with his award-winning blog, and is the Voice of Compliance, having founded the award-winning Compliance Podcast Network and hosting or producing multiple award-winning podcasts. He is an executive leader at the C-Suite Network, the world’s most trusted network of C-Suite leaders. He can be reached at [email protected].

 

Featured host: Susan Divers

Susan Divers is the director of thought leadership and best practices with LRN Corporation. She brings 30+ years’ accomplishments and experience in the ethics and compliance arena to LRN clients and colleagues. This expertise includes building state-of-the-art compliance programs infused with values, designing user-friendly means of engaging and informing employees, fostering an embedded culture of compliance, and sharing substantial subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance.

Prior to joining LRN, Mrs. Divers served as AECOM’s Assistant General for Global Ethics & Compliance and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer. Under her leadership, AECOM’s ethics and compliance program garnered six external awards in recognition of its effectiveness and Mrs. Divers’ thought leadership in the ethics field. In 2011, Mrs. Divers received the AECOM CEO Award of Excellence, which recognized her work in advancing the company’s ethics and compliance program.

Before joining AECOM, she worked at SAIC and Lockheed Martin in the international compliance area. Prior to that, she was a partner with the DC office of Sonnenschein, Nath & Rosenthal. She also spent four years in London and is qualified as a Solicitor to the High Court of England and Wales, practicing in the international arena with the law firms of Theodore Goddard & Co. and Herbert Smith & Co. She also served as an attorney in the Office of the Legal Advisor at the Department of State and was a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN working on the first anti-corruption multilateral treaty initiative. 

Mrs. Divers is a member of the DC Bar and a graduate of Trinity College, Washington D.C. and of the National Law Center of George Washington University. In 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ethisphere Magazine listed her as one the “Attorneys Who Matter” in the ethics & compliance area. She is a member of the Advisory Boards of the Rutgers University Center for Ethical Behavior and served as a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Practical Training from 2005-2008. She resides in Northern Virginia and is a frequent speaker, writer and commentator on ethics and compliance topics. 

Principled Podcast Transcript

 

Intro: Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace change makers.

Susan Divers: General Pete Schoomaker made a remark some years ago that's always stayed with me. He said, "People like to think that life is an opera that unfolds over several acts, but it's really a rodeo. You never know what's coming out of the shoot." So much of the ethics and compliance sphere clearly demonstrates the truth of the general's remarks, especially recently. LRN's last two program effectiveness reports focused specifically on the impact of the pandemic on ENC programs. Now we have the war with Russia in the Ukraine and increasingly fraught relationships with China. How is the geopolitical landscape changing the compliance landscape?

Hello and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled Podcast. I'm your host, Susan Divers, director of thought leadership and best practices at LRN. Today, I'm joined by Tom Fox, the founder of the Compliance Podcast Network and aptly accredited Voice of Compliance. In addition to his 30 plus years of legal experience, Tom is the author of the award-winning FCPA Compliance and Ethics blog, and The Complete Compliance Handbook now in its third edition, which is by far the best source for best practices in one place about ENC programs. We're going to be talking about the impact of geopolitics on ethics and compliance and what issues should be top of mind for ENC leaders in the near future. Tom, welcome.

Tom Fox: Susan, thanks. I have wanted to be on this podcast for a long time. I particularly enjoyed your reference about rodeos because in the great state of Texas, that's a college sport, rodeoing, so lots of rodeos and it's certainly an apt metaphor for what we're going to talk about today.

Susan Divers: Well, great, Tom and I really appreciate the opportunity to have any conversation with you, but particularly on the podcast. So Tom, first, generally, how do you see the ongoing war in the Ukraine as disrupting trade and the rules, both formal and informal, that have governed the world for the last 20 years and is the World Economic Forum vision of trade now dead?

Tom Fox: Susan, in addition to the rodeo metaphor you gave us, the most prescient comment I heard during the COVID-19 pandemic is that we've moved from disaster recovery to business interruption to, excuse me, to business resiliency, to business as usual. Literally now, we can have a weather event, we can have an economic event, we can have a geopolitical event, we can have any event and the requirement of a company is how do you respond? How do you respond tomorrow? Have you planned for this?

I think the type of thing that we saw with the Russian invasion, as tragic as that was, it's one more, it's just an event and we're going to talk about that in some detail. But every company has legal, ethical and business obligations around that event. I was also particularly struck by your reference to the World Economic Forum, and when I read that, it put a frown on my face. And it put a frown on my face because the World Economic Forum, in my mind, has been one of the biggest leaders for the global economy.

Since at least 1990 when I started paying attention to a global economic framework because I was in the energy industry and began to think about these issues on a global basis, the World Economic Forum and their symposiums, their position papers and really their raison d'etre was to talk about a global economy. Although I certainly thought we would have regional conflicts, as we have always had, I never thought we would, I guess my hope was that the global economy would help drive us towards a more integrated global community and that we wouldn't be put near a brink again of a global conflict. I don't pretend to say that's where we're going in Ukraine, but when you start talking about tactical nuclear weapons, that's a conversation we haven't had in this country since the '60s with seriousness.

The World Economic Forum, the world they envision, the world you and I grew up in professionally, I think that world is gone. We're moving to something else. I use the Russian invasion of Ukraine really as an ending point or an exclamation mark on trends that we have seen percolating probably 10, 5, 3 years that accelerated extraordinarily greatly in the COVID-19 pandemic up to the war in Ukraine and the disruption that that has caused really impacts businesses, and this is going to be something, I think, we're going to have to deal with literally on an ongoing basis forward. Lots, really, to unpack there, but I do have to acknowledge you for pointing out it was really the World Economic Forum that has led, I thought, the charge for a global economy and globalization and unfortunately, I think that world is now dead.

Susan Divers: I hear you and I feel the same way about the Forum. LRN participated in it quite actively until fairly recently, and the Forum really did an excellent job of helping global leaders cooperate, frame some of the rules and the practices. Maybe when the current situation resolves itself one way or another, there'll be an opportunity to do that again.

But getting a little bit more granular at this point. You've written about the impact of the Ukrainian war on the supply chain and certainly for business that's one area where the rubber really hits the road. Can you explain that a bit to our listeners?

Tom Fox: Sure. The Ukraine War, the Russian invasion of Ukraine, as I said, put a exclamation point on this. One of the key disruptions from COVID-19 was indee

Training presents an opportunity to not only educate workers, but also inspire their growth. But how can you do that in a way that feels energizing rather than exhausting? On this episode of the Principled Podcast, LRN Learning Manager Leah Hodge explores how to create engaging training with Rachel Donley, the Head of Learning & Performance Enablement for the KFC US market, a division of Yum! Brands. Listen in as the two talk about KFC’s Shift Supervisor training program, which has been receiving lots of industry recognition—winning gold at this year’s Brandon Hall Awards and being selected as a finalist for the Learning Technologies Awards—and improving leadership capability across the KFC US system of restaurants.  

 

Featured guest: Rachel Donley

Rachel Donley is a learning leader, instructional designer, gamification proponent, and strategic business partner. With 13 years of experience in the learning industry and 22 years of experience in the retail and food service industries, Rachel’s learning solutions have earned eight Brandon Hall awards. She was named a 30 under 30 Learning Leader in the inaugural Learning 2010 program and awarded the Brandon Hall Rising Star Award in 2017. Rachel holds a Master of Education in learning design from Bowling Green State University in Ohio and currently leads a team of seven to deliver learning and performance solutions to KFC’s 4100 US-based restaurants.

 

Featured host: Leah Hodge

Leah Hodge brings more than 17 years of instructional design experience to the corporate learning and development space. As a learning manager and expert in strategic partnerships at LRN, she fosters relationships with clients to analyze their training needs with an eye on elevating the learner experience. She is passionate about designing and implementing creative bespoke solutions that get learners excited about their development, taking them on a journey beyond just checking-the-box completion—including blended learning, gamification, video and animation, and onboarding learner journeys.   

Principled Podcast Transcript

Intro:

Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace changemakers.

Leah Hodge:

Training presents an opportunity to not only educate workers, but also inspire their growth. But how can you do that in a way that feels energizing rather than exhausting? Hello and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled Podcast. I'm your host, Leah Hodge, learning manager here at LRN. And today I'm joined by Rachel Donley, the head of learning and performance enablement for the KFC US market, a division of Yum! Brands. We're going to be talking about KFC's Shift Supervisor Training program, a project that we worked on together. And the whole program has been receiving lots of industry recognition, winning gold at this year's Brandon Hall Awards and being selected as a finalist for the Learning Technologies Awards. More importantly, the program has improved capability across KFC and their numerous franchises, setting the foundation for a new global best practice. Rachel, thanks for coming on the Principled Podcast today. I know there are lessons for others here and I'm excited to share your story.

Rachel Donley:

Awesome. Thank you for having me.

Leah Hodge:

Great. First question, for those who aren't familiar with this KFC story, let's start at the beginning. What were the business needs supporting this training?

Rachel Donley:

Yeah, thank you. Great question and I think it's really important to start out by understanding a little bit more about the shift supervisor role at KFC. Now, this is our entry level management role for the restaurants and a majority of higher level restaurant managers get promoted from within, from the supervisor role. So this junior hourly manager not only leads the teams during each shift, but they're in charge of everything that happens in the restaurant, including guest concerns, overseeing guest service and really culture, the team member experience. They really set the tone and really impact the culture on each shift in the restaurant. So this shift supervisor role really sets the foundation for KFC's management skillsets and capabilities throughout not only this role but for all future roles these shifts may be promoted into. So knowing that overview and background about what we're trying to accomplish for these roles in general, there was really a few other things that drove us to tackle and go after this training curriculum.

The one was we simply needed a new one. Prior to this training rolling out, the only KFC corporate-provided training for shift supervisors was a very outdated, lengthy, really like old-school, 30 plus minute e-learning curriculum. And so there wasn't a lot of real-world application.

And so it was very important and very needed that we updated this content so that not only it was more relevant, but it was also fits the modern learner. So I think that's the second piece and business need that we had here. Was to really look at our shift supervisor population today and say, "What does our shift supervisor demographics, generations, and the current industry across our restaurants, what do they really need? What does our modern learner need?" Some of that is based on research just across the board for current modern learners across any industry. And then some of that was really specific to the restaurant setting and really needing to grab their attention quickly, making sure that we're flexible, that we're mobile so that we can make sure that this shift supervisor role that gets pulled in many different directions when they're in the restaurant, also has a way to learn that fits what their everyday experience is in the restaurant and it makes it easier for them to learn as well.

We also had a need with this training and one of our goals was to create consistency across our different restaurants. Because the older LMS 20, 30-minute e-learning courses were so outdated, KFC did not mandate that anyone was taking it. And this really resulted in a very inconsistent training and skillset building experience across our systems. A lot of restaurants or larger franchisees had created their own shift supervisor training programs to fill that gap, but some of the smaller organizations or some of the ones without those resources really didn't have a lot of training available.

Now at some of our smaller organizations and restaurants, they may not have the resources or the necessarily ability to be able to craft their own training programs to fill the gap. And so again, this was driving a really inconsistent capability across our shift supervisor population. So one of the goals with this was not only updating, meeting the current learners where they're at, but also making sure that we were really level setting those foundational skillsets, behaviors and core competencies for shift supervisors across the entire US system. Regardless of which restaurant you're at, every shift would receive the same basic set of skills to make sure that they can be successful in role.

And then I think the last thing is just like with any other training that we provide at KFC US, we also want to make sure that we're looking at business metrics and are we making a positive impact on the things that we would expect this learning to help drive? And so for shift supervisor, because they touch so much of our restaurants and so many of the pieces of our operations, we're really looking at how is this increasing like team member and restaurant engagement and culture? How is this increasing worker performance across different guest metrics and what's that meaning from a culture turnover and people perspective?

Leah Hodge:

Thanks for that Rachel. We really had a lot of goals to achieve with this training and I think we achieved that definitely. And so what I'd like to do now is dig into those design principles that were behind the Shift Supervisor Training. And I love... I'm biased. I love that the one outcome we had was that simulated game. Can you talk about how KFC chose that format?

Rachel Donley:

Yeah, absolutely. That's my favorite part as well. I think games and simulations in general just allow us to provide a level of behavioral practice that really isn't...  can't happen and it needs other type of like LMS delivered learning context. If anyone's familiar with the KFC US system, we're across the entire country, different time zones, close to 4,000 restaurants, and we just don't have necessarily the setup to deliver some kind of simulated experience and hands on, a face to face across the system. So when we're thinking about delivering something that's scalable and can be taken at any time by anyone in any time zone, we're really looking at something that's through the LMS and really games and simulations let us get as close to the learner environment as possible and really simulate assessing and letting the learner practice what they've learned in a safe and controlled environment.

Now, we'll never specifically match an exact restaurant set up layout or experience in the game in a simulation, but we got really, really, really close. And this is so important, we all know from a learning transfer perspective, it's really important to make the learning and have them apply what they learned as close to the real world as possible. And I think that it just cannot be understated how much games and simulations can really be a force to seed what people have learned, start to apply it before they get into an environment, well, that has a lot go

In September, the Department of Justice Fraud Section announced a new policy direction on corporate misconduct, clearly stating that personal accountability for employees, executives, and directors was their number one priority. The revised DOJ policy clearly states that an organization’s compensation and benefits program must be aligned to its values and ethical culture. So, what does this mean for compliance? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, host Susan Divers discusses how to implement a meaningful performance management system that meets DOJ objectives with Stephanie Ragan, a Certified Compliance and Ethics Professional (recently of SOFEC) and now solo practitioner after 14 years as a compliance specialist and manager in the oil and gas industry. 

 

Featured guest: Stephanie Ragan

As an experienced, well-rounded compliance and ethics specialist, Stephanie has recently struck out on her own by launching Ragan Export Compliance, a consulting company focused on providing services and guidance for regulatory compliance. A subject matter expert in trade compliance for the past 10 years, she holds both a Masters of Science in Regulatory Trade Compliance and a degree in International Trade Management. Her credentials include special certifications as a Certified United States Export Compliance Officer (CUSECO), a Certified Compliance & Ethics Professional (CCEP) and an FCPA Expert (FCPA Blog).With a passion for developing efficient, integrated and automated compliance systems and programs, Stephanie’s philosophy is that the intentional integration of compliance and ethics elements within an organization is at the core of every successful business model; and through making compliance accessible and approachable to all stakeholders, the value of a company’s culture is significantly increased.

 

Featured host: Susan Divers

Susan Divers is the director of thought leadership and best practices with LRN Corporation. She brings 30+ years’ accomplishments and experience in the ethics and compliance arena to LRN clients and colleagues. This expertise includes building state-of-the-art compliance programs infused with values, designing user-friendly means of engaging and informing employees, fostering an embedded culture of compliance, and sharing substantial subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance.

Prior to joining LRN, Mrs. Divers served as AECOM’s Assistant General for Global Ethics & Compliance and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer. Under her leadership, AECOM’s ethics and compliance program garnered six external awards in recognition of its effectiveness and Mrs. Divers’ thought leadership in the ethics field. In 2011, Mrs. Divers received the AECOM CEO Award of Excellence, which recognized her work in advancing the company’s ethics and compliance program.

Before joining AECOM, she worked at SAIC and Lockheed Martin in the international compliance area. Prior to that, she was a partner with the DC office of Sonnenschein, Nath & Rosenthal. She also spent four years in London and is qualified as a Solicitor to the High Court of England and Wales, practicing in the international arena with the law firms of Theodore Goddard & Co. and Herbert Smith & Co. She also served as an attorney in the Office of the Legal Advisor at the Department of State and was a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN working on the first anti-corruption multilateral treaty initiative. 

Mrs. Divers is a member of the DC Bar and a graduate of Trinity College, Washington D.C. and of the National Law Center of George Washington University. In 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ethisphere Magazine listed her as one the “Attorneys Who Matter” in the ethics & compliance area. She is a member of the Advisory Boards of the Rutgers University Center for Ethical Behavior and served as a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Practical Training from 2005-2008. She resides in Northern Virginia and is a frequent speaker, writer and commentator on ethics and compliance topics. 

 

Principled Podcast Transcript

Intro: Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace change makers.

Susan Divers: Last September, the Department of Justice Fraud Section announced a new policy direction on corporate misconduct. And they clearly stated that personal accountability for employees, executives, and directors was the department's number one priority.

And as part of that, the revised policy that DAG, Lisa Monaco put out that day makes clear that an organization's compensation and benefits program must be aligned to its values and ethical culture. That means that positive behavior, for example, turning down a tainted business opportunity should be an essential factor in evaluating performance.

And that there should be financial penalties, real financial penalties for misconduct. So what does that mean for compliance professionals? Hello, and welcome to another episode of LRN's DAG, Lisa Monaco. I'm your host, Susan Divers, director of thought leadership and best practices at LRN.

Today I'm joined by Stephanie Ragan, a certified compliance and ethics professional, and most recently of Sofec, an oil and gas provider that's global in its operations. Stephanie has just left Sofec and is now consulting on her own after 14 years of a compliance specialist and a manager in the oil and gas industry.

We're going to be talking about implementing a meaningful performance management system that meets DOJ objectives and how you go about that. Stephanie, thanks for joining me on Principled Podcast.

Stephanie Ragan: Thanks for having me, Susan.

Susan Divers: It's my pleasure. Interestingly, one of the questions we ask in LRN's annual program effectiveness survey is about organizations using ethical behavior as a significant factor in compensation, bonuses, hiring and promotion. And last year 69% of the over, I think it was about 1200 ENC programs that we surveyed, indicated that they required that an employee's ethical behavior be evaluated as part of their annual performance review.

And we found that top rated programs were much more likely with 88% including such criteria. But Stephanie, as you know, with all things compliance, the devil is in the details. So I'd really like to hear about how you implemented your program that does just that at Sofec. And I'm sure our listeners would love to profit from your experience and your wisdom on this subject. So let's start at the beginning, how did you start this initiative or how did it start and how did you get support for it?

Stephanie Ragan: Well, sure. So coming from a company like Sofec, we just celebrated our 50th year and we have a lot of mature programs and some that are still coming along. And our compliance program was one of our newer initiatives. We started it in about 2011.

And it was interesting to see that when we formalized that department and all of our programs, policies, everything that helped sustain it, there was a need to measure it against other overhead type departments like HR, HSE and quality. So looking toward those types of departments for direction to see how we could measure effectiveness of programs and tie that back to our professional performance goal setting efforts that we do on an annual basis was a challenge for us.

And we decided that as the new kid on the block, we could look at what worked for everybody and what didn't. And we decided that it would be necessary to look at what weight we needed to hold within the organization for each of our compliance initiatives.

So for a starting point for our listeners, I would suggest that you look at the way your organizations measure performance. And if there is already an existing HSSEQ component or HR component, that you should also be including a compliance and ethics representation. And that should be a key area of focus for your personnel to align with your company culture and your company code and business operations.

Susan Divers: That makes a great deal of sense. And I want to pick up on one thing you said in particular, which is that the ENC program needs to have equal status and weight with other similar programs, whether it's HR or audit or security or health and safety. And that's actually in the 2020 guidance from the Department of Justice as well.

Because one of the questions prosecutors will ask or are told to ask companies accused of misconduct is, "Does your ENC program have equal status and resources?" So the approach you took fits very nicely with that. Let's talk about how you actually went about it. How did you enlist support? How long did it take? And what did you do in the end to get it up and running?

Stephanie Ragan: Well, you know it takes a village to have any kind of success. And our compliance and ethics global team really took on this call to bring compliance and ethics to the forefront, it having an equal say in the performance measurements that we do in the company.

And we were able to within the last few years, convince our management that along with performance measurement, which was a key area of concern, we needed to have regular meetings, at least an annual meeting, to be able to confer as a team globally and to discuss ideas, work on program development and get training initiatives ironed out.

Kind of plan out our year as a whole so that globally we could have a cohesive plan that aligned everyone, didn't leave anyone behind from a pla

What you'll learn in this podcast episode

Guidance from the US Department of Justice, particularly the recent 2020 memorandum, stresses that a company’s compliance program must reflect and evolve with its risks—and should not be a snapshot or on cruise control. But in assessing those risks, it’s helpful to see what other companies in the same area or circumstances have done to meet them. Collective action and coordination can be very useful in dealing with common risks. So, when is benchmarking and a collective approach to risk helpful? And when can it backfire? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, LRN Director of Advisory Services Emily Miner continues the conversation from Episode 6 about benchmarking with her colleague Susan Divers. Listen in as the two discuss the benefits and limitations of benchmarking, and how organizations can ensure they benchmark their E&C programs effectively. 

 

Featured guest: Susan Divers

Susan Divers is the director of thought leadership and best practices with LRN Corporation. She brings 30+ years’ accomplishments and experience in the ethics and compliance arena to LRN clients and colleagues. This expertise includes building state-of-the-art compliance programs infused with values, designing user-friendly means of engaging and informing employees, fostering an embedded culture of compliance, and sharing substantial subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance.

Prior to joining LRN, Mrs. Divers served as AECOM’s Assistant General for Global Ethics & Compliance and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer. Under her leadership, AECOM’s ethics and compliance program garnered six external awards in recognition of its effectiveness and Mrs. Divers’ thought leadership in the ethics field. In 2011, Mrs. Divers received the AECOM CEO Award of Excellence, which recognized her work in advancing the company’s ethics and compliance program.

Before joining AECOM, she worked at SAIC and Lockheed Martin in the international compliance area. Prior to that, she was a partner with the DC office of Sonnenschein, Nath & Rosenthal. She also spent four years in London and is qualified as a Solicitor to the High Court of England and Wales, practicing in the international arena with the law firms of Theodore Goddard & Co. and Herbert Smith & Co. She also served as an attorney in the Office of the Legal Advisor at the Department of State and was a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN working on the first anti-corruption multilateral treaty initiative. 

Mrs. Divers is a member of the DC Bar and a graduate of Trinity College, Washington D.C. and of the National Law Center of George Washington University. In 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ethisphere Magazine listed her as one the “Attorneys Who Matter” in the ethics & compliance area. She is a member of the Advisory Boards of the Rutgers University Center for Ethical Behavior and served as a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Practical Training from 2005-2008. She resides in Northern Virginia and is a frequent speaker, writer and commentator on ethics and compliance topics. 

Featured Host: Emily Miner

Emily Miner is a director of LRN’s Ethics & Compliance Advisory services. She counsels executive leadership teams on how to actively shape and manage their ethical culture through deep quantitative and qualitative understanding and engagement. A skilled facilitator, Emily emphasizes co-creative, bottom-up, and data-driven approaches to foster ethical behavior and inform program strategy. Emily has led engagements with organizations in the healthcare, technology, manufacturing, energy, professional services, and education industries. Emily co-leads LRN’s ongoing flagship research on E&C program effectiveness and is a thought leader in the areas of organizational culture, leadership, and E&C program impact. Prior to joining LRN, Emily applied her behavioral science expertise in the environmental sustainability sector, working with non-profits and several New England municipalities; facilitated earth science research in academia; and contributed to drafting and advancing international climate policy goals. Emily has a Master of Public Administration in Environmental Science and Policy from Columbia University and graduated summa cum laude from the University of Florida with a degree in Anthropology.

 

Principled Podcast Transcript

Intro: Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace change makers.

Emily Miner: Guidance from the US Department of Justice, particularly the recent 2020 memorandum, stresses that a company's compliance program must reflect and evolve with its risks and should not be a snapshot or on cruise control. But in assessing those risks, it's helpful to see what other companies in the same area or circumstances have done to meet them. Collective action and coordination can be very useful in dealing with common risks. So when is benchmarking and a collective approach to risk helpful, and when can it backfire?

Hello, and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled podcast. I'm your host, Emily Miner, director of Advisory Services at LRN. Today I'm continuing my conversation from episode six about benchmarking with my colleague Susan Divers, our director of Thought Leadership and Best practices. We're going to be talking about the benefits and the limitations of benchmarking and how organizations can ensure they benchmark their E&C programs effectively.

Susan brings more than 30 years experience in both the legal and E&C spaces to this topic area with subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance. Susan, thanks for coming on the Principled podcast.

Susan Divers: Oh, Emily, it's always nice to talk with you.

Emily Miner: So Susan, before we get started, let's kind of define benchmarking and summarize the conversation that I had in our last podcast with our colleague Derek. So benchmarking means comparing what you do as an organization in this case to a usually large number of comparable organizations or individuals. And most often, this is done in a quantitative way, although there are also opportunities to benchmark qualitatively.

And at LRN, we've been using benchmarks for a number of years now through our research reports. We've conducted major panel research on the role of ethical culture in an organization and in organization's risk of misconduct. So looking at how that varies across countries, across industries. We conduct every year research into ethics and compliance program effectiveness research that you lead and that you and I collaborate on. And we've been doing that for, oh gosh, coming up on, I don't know, maybe eight years now. That's been given us a insightful look into Ethics & Compliance Program best practices, and how they've evolved over time. We've also conducted research on codes of conduct, analyzing nearly 150 publicly listed codes of conduct from the top listed companies around the world and looking at similarities and differences and best practices in that space.

But we have a brand new product at LRN that we're launching later this month that I know we're all really excited about called Catalyst Reveal, which is a platform that will, as it's name suggests, reveal insights to our clients about their ethics and compliance program, things like course level data training, data, employee sentiment, ethical culture. It will also give our clients the ability to see how their results along these metrics compare with other organizations in the LRN client universe. So looking at by industry, by company size, and a few other comparable filters.

So with that exciting launch as our backdrop, I wanted to talk to you as an expert and a thought leader in this space about benchmarking compliance programs, when to do it, when not to do it, et cetera. So let me turn it over to you, Susan, and let's start with the benefits. What are the benefits of benchmarking in ethics and compliance program?

Susan Divers: Sure, Emily, I'd be happy to talk about that. In thinking about this topic, there are really three really good functions that benchmarking is appropriate for. And then there are some where it's not so appropriate and we can talk about all of that. But starting with what it's very appropriate for, the first is if you're setting up a program, you need to figure out kind of what are the basics that you need to do at the outset. And it can be very helpful particularly if it's a new program, and it usually is if it's setting it up to be able to say your management, "We have to have a code. We have to have policies. We have to have audit. And we have to have training" and those are kind of the four basic pillars and being able to make that case. That's very basic, but it can be very helpful in terms of people who are struggling to get started in what we all know is a really complicated area.

So that's kind of the first setting where benchmarking I think can be very helpful. And then the second is you've got your program and you're up and going. Now, no two companies are alike, no two industries are alike, and I can get into that a little bit later, but it's helpful to know if you're mainstream or not. Like for example, our Ethical Pulse Culture check lets you sort of get an idea from a short questionnaire embedded in our platform in Reveal whether your culture is really out of whack or pretty much along the same lines as mainstream. And again, that's really helpf

What you'll learn in this podcast episode

Over the last few years, federal regulators have provided detailed guidance on what they expect to see in E&C programs when it comes to misconduct inquiries or investigations. What do these recent reports, policies, and guidance mean for compliance professionals? In this episode of the Principled Podcast, LRN Director of Thought Leadership and Best Practices Susan Divers is joined by Jon Drimmer, a partner at the law firm Paul Hastings. Listen in as the two discuss the recent guidance from the US Department of Justice as well as DOJ policy impacting corporate compliance programs and ethical culture.   

 

Featured guest: Jon Drimmer

Jonathan C. Drimmer is a partner in the Investigations and White Collar Defense practice and is based in the Washington, D.C. office of Paul Hastings. He resolves complex cross-border problems with the benefit of having sat in every chair at the table: senior legal officer for a global 500 company, federal prosecutor, and seasoned advocate. He is a recognized international expert on anti­corruption and business and human rights, and is a frequent speaker, author, and commentator on issues related to both topics.

Before joining Paul Hastings, he was Deputy General Counsel and Chief Compliance Officer of Barrick Gold, one of the world’s largest mining companies, with operations on five continents. The compliance program he built at Barrick has served as an industry standard, and elements of it have largely been duplicated by numerous other companies inside and outside of the extractive sector.

Mr. Drimmer has directed hundreds of investigations around the world related to anti-corruption, human rights, AML and export controls, tax controversies, environmental incidents, public disclosures, fatalities and health and safety injuries, sexual harassment and discrimination, and other areas. He has represented companies and individuals in numerous government enforcement proceedings in the U.S. and overseas, in relation to FCPA and bribery claims, human rights issues, and a wide array of other matters. He has participated in dozens of major disputes in the U.S., Canada, and abroad, including transnational torts, anti-corruption claims, environmental cases, international arbitrations, tax disputes, construction claims, and land controversies.

He previously served in the Justice Department as Deputy Director of the Criminal Division’s Office of Special Investigations, where he led cross-border investigations, first-chaired numerous prosecutions, and argued federal appeals. He was a partner at an Am Law 100 law firm in Washington, D.C., a former Bristow Fellow in the Office of the U.S. Solicitor General, and a judicial clerk on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit. Mr. Drimmer served on the board of directors of the Voluntary Principles on Security and Human Rights Initiative from 2012-2014, and again from 2015-2017. He served on the board of TRACE International from 2012 until 2018, and currently sits on the board of the TRACE Foundation. He has also taught international law courses at Georgetown University Law Center for nearly 20 years.

  Featured Host: Susan Divers

Susan Divers is the director of thought leadership and best practices with LRN Corporation. She brings 30+ years’ accomplishments and experience in the ethics and compliance arena to LRN clients and colleagues. This expertise includes building state-of-the-art compliance programs infused with values, designing user-friendly means of engaging and informing employees, fostering an embedded culture of compliance, and sharing substantial subject matter expertise in anti-corruption, export controls, sanctions, and other key areas of compliance.

Prior to joining LRN, Mrs. Divers served as AECOM’s Assistant General for Global Ethics & Compliance and Chief Ethics & Compliance Officer. Under her leadership, AECOM’s ethics and compliance program garnered six external awards in recognition of its effectiveness and Mrs. Divers’ thought leadership in the ethics field. In 2011, Mrs. Divers received the AECOM CEO Award of Excellence, which recognized her work in advancing the company’s ethics and compliance program.

Before joining AECOM, she worked at SAIC and Lockheed Martin in the international compliance area. Prior to that, she was a partner with the DC office of Sonnenschein, Nath & Rosenthal. She also spent four years in London and is qualified as a Solicitor to the High Court of England and Wales, practicing in the international arena with the law firms of Theodore Goddard & Co. and Herbert Smith & Co. She also served as an attorney in the Office of the Legal Advisor at the Department of State and was a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN working on the first anti-corruption multilateral treaty initiative. 

Mrs. Divers is a member of the DC Bar and a graduate of Trinity College, Washington D.C. and of the National Law Center of George Washington University. In 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 Ethisphere Magazine listed her as one the “Attorneys Who Matter” in the ethics & compliance area. She is a member of the Advisory Boards of the Rutgers University Center for Ethical Behavior and served as a member of the Board of Directors for the Institute for Practical Training from 2005-2008. She resides in Northern Virginia and is a frequent speaker, writer and commentator on ethics and compliance topics. 

 

Principled Podcast Transcript

Intro: Welcome to the Principled Podcast, brought to you by LRN. The Principled Podcast brings together the collective wisdom on ethics, business and compliance, transformative stories of leadership and inspiring workplace culture. Listen in to discover valuable strategies from our community of business leaders and workplace change makers.

Susan Divers:  Good afternoon. From time to time, but particularly in the last few years, federal regulators have provided detailed guidance on what they expect to see in ethics and compliance programs when companies present them as a defense to misconduct inquiries or investigations. What do the recent flurry of reports, policies and guidance mean for compliance professionals? How should they be applied to improve E and C programs?

Hello, and welcome to another episode of LRN's Principled Podcast. I'm your host, Susan Divers, director of thought leadership and best practices at LRN. And today, I'm joined by Jon Drimmer, a partner at the international law firm of Paul Hastings. We're going to talk about the recent DOJ guidance and policy impacting corporate compliance programs and ethical culture, and hopefully help everyone understand what it is and how they should apply it to their programs. Jon is a real expert, as well as a friend in this space. He has the unusual distinction of serving in three of the principal seats that affect ethics and compliance, once as a federal prosecutor at DOJ, another time as a chief ethics and compliance officer and deputy general council for a large mining company, and now as an ethics and compliance advocate with a leading law firm. Jon, thanks so much for joining me at Principled Podcast.

Jon Drimmer: Thanks, Susan. It's great to be with you.

Susan Divers: Super. Well, let's jump right in. Last week, we saw a new policy come out of the Department of Justice that both Lisa Monaco and also Ken Polite have talked about with great emphasis. We've also seen the report come out of the sentencing commission about their 30 years of accomplishments. And we've also seen some major guidance in the last two years. Can you put it in perspective for us and talk about how it fits together, and how they interplay. And then we can jump in and start figuring out what they mean.

Jon Drimmer: Yeah. No, happy to do it. So let me take each one in sequence. So what we saw come down from the deputy attorney general was a new policy memo. And in essence, what that means is policies are, they are the rules that apply to federal prosecutors and prosecuting entities around the country. They are the standards that are going to be applied. Guidance, which is something that we see come out in a number of different ways through formal guidance as well as through statements and speeches and other informal approaches, this is basically how those rules are interpreted, how prosecutors should be thinking about the application of those policies as they're applied to any given circumstance. And then finally, reports, and you mentioned the sentencing commission's 30 year look back, those are more general. And they do tend to come out for transparency purpose, they're often retrospective, like the sentencing commission report. But they generally talk about how these rules have been applied. So policies are the rules, the guidance effectively aids in their interpretation, and the reports generally are a bit of a look back as to how they have been applied to date.

Susan Divers: That's really helpful. It really helps me put all of those in perspective. Talk a little bit more than about the policies and the guidance. Are they mandatory? Are they voluntary?

Jon Drimmer: Well, for prosecutors, they're mandatory. So when you look at the policies, this is effectively how prosecutors are to approach any given situation. It is a directive to them in terms of how it is they should go about doing their jobs. And I'll tell you it's critical. It's critical for chief compliance officers to understand those types of initiatives, those types of emphases. It's critical to prosecutors as well, as they get that direction in terms of what they should be focusing on. So really, it's a very important part of the process and helping to shape how investigations are run and scoped from the government's end, and what can be expected on the company side as well for chief compliance offic