Selected - The Sesamers Podcast

Music Industry Evolution

Allen Bargfrede's eclectic career trajectory is a testament to his adaptability and foresight. As a music and technology lawyer, he has seamlessly transitioned into strategic advising and operational roles, shaping the way music companies and their investors navigate an ever-evolving industry. His work, especially with the Rethink Music initiative, has been pivotal in fostering transparency within the music industry, particularly addressing the perennial challenges of metadata. Allen recalls, "We did a lot of work on transparency in the music industry and particularly the metadata challenges that exist."

Metadata: The Music Industry's Unsung Hero

Allen demystifies the concept of metadata for the uninitiated, highlighting its critical role in the music ecosystem. "Metadata in the music industry is really what's... identifiers that help streaming services... so that the royalties can be properly allocated," he explains. This information is the unsung hero of the industry, ensuring artists and rights holders are fairly compensated. His initiative, Verifi Media, underscores his commitment to leveraging technology to resolve the complexities of data management in music.

The Rising Trend of Investing in Music Assets

In a fascinating observation, Allen sheds light on the growing trend of investing in music assets. He traces the origins back to the 2008 financial crisis and the subsequent rise of streaming services, coupled with low-interest rates, which collectively spurred investors to consider music royalties and copyrights as viable and stable investment opportunities. "You saw very, very low, and in the case of Europe, negative interest rates. And so, uh, investors... started to look at music and say, this is an area, A, that's growing. And B, it's non-correlated to economic shocks," Allen notes, explaining the allure of the music industry to investors.

Music-Tech Community Fusion

Allen is passionate about creating platforms that bring together professionals from various backgrounds. His efforts through Rethink Music and other smaller, more focused events have been about creating spaces where people from academia, business, and technology can cross-pollinate ideas. He believes in the power of events to foster genuine connections and inspire innovation. "Bringing this kind of diverse set of backgrounds obviously provides different perspectives to the other folks that are in the room," he reflects on the importance of collaborative environments.

Envisioning Music 2030

Looking ahead, Allen is excited about his latest project, Music 2030, a series of events set in the culturally rich and dynamic city of Biarritz. With a focus on the intersection of AI and music, Allen aims to explore how these technologies will shape the future of music creation, distribution, and consumption. He envisions Music 2030 as more than an event but as a continuous hub for creativity and thought leadership in the music industry.

Career Diversity: Crafting Saudi's Music Future

Paul Pacifico's journey to becoming the CEO of the Music Commission of Saudi Arabia is a tale of diverse experiences shaping an ideal role. With a background that spans from banking to music, Paul's multifaceted career has perfectly positioned him for this unique challenge. He mentions, “It requires all of the expertise from everything I've ever done in my life. Whether that's from music or outside music,” highlighting the value of a varied career path in reaching such pivotal roles.

Vision 2030: Reshaping Saudi's Cultural Scene

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is undergoing a seismic shift in its cultural landscape, driven by Vision 2030. This ambitious plan aims for economic diversification and a vibrant societal overhaul. Paul elaborates, “Music pushes change, pushes the envelope, but it also brings people together.” Music's dual role in challenging norms and uniting people is at the heart of Saudi Arabia's transformative journey, making it a cornerstone of their cultural revival.

Saudi Arabia: A Land of Unexpected Diversity

Paul highlights the vastness and cultural diversity of Saudi Arabia, often surprising to many. He compares the country's size to Western Europe, emphasizing varied landscapes and a fast-growing, predominantly young population. “70 percent of the population is under 35 years of age,” he notes, pointing to a digitally enabled and ambitious generation driving change.

Building a New Music Industry from Scratch

The Music Commission’s task of constructing a new music industry is both daunting and exciting. With no existing infrastructure, they are at liberty to design systems reflective of a future-facing economy. Paul delves into the complexities: “with everything we know about the history of the last 200 years and the evolution of technology from paper cards to blockchain, what would we like to do?” This blank slate approach offers a unique opportunity to innovate without legacy constraints.

Human Insight: The Core of Music Industry Evolution

Amidst the discussions about technology and infrastructure, Paul underscores the importance of the human factor. He argues that technology like blockchain is not a panacea but rather a tool that needs to be used judiciously. “What you need is the data in the system,” he says, emphasizing the necessity of accurate and comprehensive data for effective management and distribution in the music industry.

From Diplomacy to Startup Dynamism

Tom Miskin's journey is a testament to the transformative power of career shifts. With a background in international diplomacy and a stint at the British foreign office in Oslo, his introduction to the startup world came unexpectedly during a royal visit. As Tom recalls, "We introduced them to, I think, four startups, including reMarkable... and No Isolation ...helping children that are unable to go to school because of illness." This pivotal moment opened Tom's eyes to the burgeoning startup scene in Oslo, leading him to his current role in fostering innovation.

Embracing Digital in Times of Crisis

When the pandemic hit, Tom had just taken the helm of Oslo Innovation Week. The sudden shift to a digital world posed challenges but also opened new doors. As Tom describes, “We had to pivot like all other events...so we managed hybrid. Again, that was new and difficult and challenging, but also an opportunity because you did actually manage to attract international attendees online that may not have traveled.” This ability to adapt has proven crucial in maintaining the event’s relevance and reach.

The Ecosystem's Evolution: Scale-ups Taking Center Stage

The startup ecosystem in Oslo has matured significantly, with Tom noting a shift in focus from startups to scale-ups. "Startups have gotten a lot of the support they need and it's meant a natural move towards us supporting the scale-up ecosystem," he explains. This evolution reflects the growth and increasing sophistication of the entrepreneurial landscape in Oslo, which now boasts over 200 scale-up companies and a significant contribution to job creation.

International Capital: Fueling Norway’s Innovation

Despite the common perception of Norway as a country flush with funds, Tom highlights a surprising gap: "There is lots of money in Norway...but not VC." He elaborates on the cultural and historical reasons for this, and the strategic pivot toward sustainable and impactful startups as Norway transitions away from oil and gas. “We’re very reliant on international VC capital in Oslo and in Norway,” Tom adds, underscoring the international community’s role in fueling local innovation.

Oslo Innovation Week: A Community-Centric Approach

Oslo Innovation Week stands out with its unique, crowdsourced format. "It’s a collaboration with the ecosystem in Oslo and beyond," says Tom. With events free to attend and no charge for companies to participate, Oslo Innovation Week fosters a community spirit. Looking ahead to its 20th anniversary in 2024, Tom is enthusiastic about the future: "We have few resources, but big ambitions So we're always reliant on working with good collaborators."

Find Tom on:

• LinkedIn: Tom Miskin
• Twitter/X: @miskin_tom

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: Ben Costantini
• Twitter/X: @bencostantini

Embracing Diverse Ecosystems in Venture Capital

Susanne Najafi began her journey in venture capital with a distinct perspective: capital often remains in tight networks, missing out on the potential of diverse founders outside of these circles. "Almost all capital remains in very tight networks," Susanne explains, highlighting the opportunity in investing beyond these circles for better valuations and the creation of new ecosystems. She underscores the importance of reaching out to founders who might not traditionally have access to venture capital, thus tapping into a broader range of innovation and opportunity.

The Poker Table Networking Strategy

Networking plays a crucial role in the venture capital world, and for Susanne, a poker table was more than a gaming surface; it was a networking hub. She shares an anecdote about how playing poker led to meeting her co-founder and first investors. "We actually met when playing poker," she recounts, emphasizing the unconventional ways one can enter business networks and the importance of being present where potential investors are.

Proactive Deal Sourcing

In a venture capital landscape where most firms are reactive, waiting for deals to come to them, BackingMinds VC distinguishes itself by actively seeking out potential investments. They employ a methodical approach to deal sourcing, focusing on identifying significant issues such as carbon emissions and targeting companies that are developing solutions to these challenges. This hands-on strategy allows them to uncover groundbreaking startups and technologies, demonstrating their commitment to proactive investment discovery.

Investment in Underrepresented Entrepreneurs

One of BackingMinds strategies is to focus on groups that are often overlooked or underserved by the traditional VC ecosystem. Susanne discusses their investment in Transfer Galaxy, a fintech company addressing the high costs immigrant populations face when sending money home. "It's a shame that the people many times with the least money have to pay the highest fees," Susanne remarks, shedding light on the potential in catering to the needs of diverse communities.

The Future of VC: Diversity and Data-Driven Decisions

Susanne is a strong advocate for diversity in venture capital, not just as a moral imperative but as a business one. She highlights that data shows diverse teams perform better, with a 25% higher return. "It's a question about return," she says, emphasizing the need for the VC industry to broaden its perspectives and leverage data to overcome biases and tap into a wider pool of entrepreneurial talent.

Find Susanne on:

• LinkedIn: Susanne Najafi
• Twitter/X: @susannenajafi

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: Ben Costantini
• Twitter/X: @bencostantini

Jenny's Slush-to-Startup Story

Jenny Gyllander reflects on her remarkable journey, beginning with her deep involvement in Slush's growth and evolution, which significantly influenced her path into entrepreneurship. Having worked at Slush during its pivotal years from 2013 to 2015, she describes how these experiences fueled her passion for the startup ecosystem. Her career trajectory took her from Slush's brand and marketing to the VC world in London and eventually to the inception of Thingtesting in the United States. Jenny shares, "Slush was my gateway into the world of entrepreneurship… I really fell in love with the world of entrepreneurship."

The Unforeseen Rise of Thingtesting

Jenny delves into the origins of Thingtesting, initially a side project born out of her interest in reviewing emerging e-commerce brands. The project's success surpassed her expectations, evolving into a comprehensive platform that now boasts a vibrant community and over 100,000 reviews. Jenny's candid reflection on this journey highlights the platform's organic growth and the crucial role of community engagement in its development.

Innovative Monetization and Community Engagement

Exploring Thingtesting's monetization strategies, Jenny discusses how the platform has innovatively diversified its revenue streams. This includes a blend of advertising, affiliate marketing, and a unique B2B model that assists brands in expanding their retail footprint. Central to these efforts is the platform's commitment to authenticity and transparency in user-generated content, fostering a space where unbiased reviews thrive.

Managing the Integrity of Crowdsourced Reviews

One of the significant challenges Jenny highlights is ensuring the authenticity and quality of the vast array of user-generated reviews. She explains the rigorous process of identity verification and the use of sophisticated algorithms to detect and prevent fraudulent activities. This approach underscores Thingtesting's dedication to maintaining a trustworthy and reliable platform for both consumers and brands.

Looking Ahead: Thingtesting's Vision and Mission

As for the future, Jenny envisions Thingtesting becoming a go-to, transparent resource for consumer opinions, akin to a 'Wikipedia of e-commerce'. Her ambition is to cultivate a platform that not only serves as a comprehensive database for reviews but also as a beacon for sustainable and responsible consumerism. The mission, as she articulates, is to empower consumers with honest, unfiltered information, enabling them to make informed decisions in an increasingly complex e-commerce landscape.

Jenny Gyllander's narrative from a Slush participant to a visionary entrepreneur underscores the dynamic nature of the tech and e-commerce sectors. Her story is a testament to the power of passion, innovation, and community-driven endeavors in shaping the future of how we interact with and perceive the digital marketplace.

Find Jenny on:

• LinkedIn: Jenny Gyllander
• Twitter/X: @gyllanderjenny

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: Ben Costantini
• Twitter/X: @bencostantini

From Coffee Runs to CFO: Josefiina's Slush Ride

Josefiina Kotilainen’s journey from a volunteer at Slush to its CFO is a testament to the power of ambition and hard work. As a student in 2013, she entered the startup arena, taking on roles that ranged from construction to stage assistance. This hands-on experience laid the groundwork for her ascent to a pivotal role at Slush, illustrating how grassroots involvement can be a launchpad to leadership in the startup world.

Venture Capital Vibes with Josefiina

Post-Slush, Josefiina transitioned into the venture capital sector, embracing a new challenge with enthusiasm. She played a crucial role in founding Maki.vc in Finland, focusing on early stage founders with scientific advances and customer understanding that looks beyond convention. “I absolutely love it,” she says about her experience working with founders, highlighting her dedication to nurturing innovative startups and leveraging technology for global betterment.

At the Helm of Finland's Startup Foundation

As the CEO of Startup Foundation, Josefiina is more than an operational leader; she's a visionary. Her ambitious goal for Finland's startup ecosystem aims to see 100 startups each achieving €100 million in revenues by 2050. This objective reflects a comprehensive strategy to elevate Finland as a major player in the global startup landscape. She shares her conviction that startups are the most obvious solution to changing the word, given their flexibility and adaptable nature during formative years, and their ability to quickly transition to scaleups.

Josefiina: The Student Startup Champion

Josefiina places significant emphasis on the role of universities and entrepreneurship societies in fostering a vibrant startup culture. She advocates for the involvement of students in the startup ecosystem, recognizing their potential to drive significant societal and environmental change. “10 percent of all of the students in Finland have some kind of connection to the ES world,” she notes, underlining the impactful role these societies play in nurturing the next generation of entrepreneurs.

More Than Startups: Josefiina's Immigration Reform Rally

Recognizing the importance of a diverse talent pool for achieving the ambitious goals of the Startup Foundation, Josefiina actively supports immigration reform. By advocating for policies that attract global talent to Finland, she highlights the critical need for an inclusive and supportive startup ecosystem. “We need more talent here in Finland...that’s essential,” she asserts, pointing to the intersection of entrepreneurship and policy as key to the future success of Finland's startup ecosystem.

Find Josefiina on:

• LinkedIn: Josefiina Kotilainen
• Twitter/X: @JoseKotilainen

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: Ben Costantini
• Twitter/X: @bencostantini

Leadership Journey: From Volunteer to CEO

Eerika takes us on her journey from stumbling upon Slush during her finance studies to becoming its CEO. A testament to the organic growth and opportunities within the Slush community, Eerika's trajectory highlights the significance of curiosity and seizing unexpected chances.

Adapting and Innovating: Navigating 2020's Challenges

Slush faced the daunting challenge of canceling its main event in 2020 due to the pandemic. However, rather than succumbing to setbacks, the team pivoted to launch Node by Slush, an online community for founders. Eerika shares the lessons learned from this experience, showcasing the team's resilience and adaptability.

Year-Round Commitment: The Inner Workings of Slush

In addition to the main annual event in Helsinki, Slush operates as a year-round endeavor. Eerika sheds light on the continuous efforts of the 48 full-time team members and the 1,600 volunteers, emphasizing Slush's commitment to maintaining a startup mentality throughout the entire year.

Innovative Platforms: Enhancing the Slush Experience

The evolution of the Slush platform is a fascinating aspect of the conversation. Eerika delves into the growth and key features of the online products, emphasizing the focus on matchmaking improvements, increased meeting capacity, and the extension of features beyond the main event.

Slush 100: Catalyzing Early-Stage Startup Success

Eerika provides insights into the Slush 100 competition, a platform for early-stage startups to connect with leading VCs and investors. The partnership with VCs, the 1 million euro equity investment for the winner, and the exclusive entry for companies founded in 2020 or later underscores Slush's commitment to fostering innovation and supporting the next generation of startups.

Find Eerika on:

• LinkedIn: Eerika Savolainen
• Twitter / X: @eerikasav

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: bcostantini
• Twitter / X: @bencostantini

Highlights

The Birth of Six Cinquième: A Fusion of Creativity and Business

Miro's journey into the world of startups begins with a unique blend of skills. With a background in business management and a knack for creative direction, he met Ash Finnegan, co-founder of Six Cinquième, during his foray into Montreal's music industry. They decided to combine their talents to create an agency that champions non-traditional creatives. Miro's words resonate with their philosophy:

"We come from a non-traditional background. Let's do it our own way."

Embracing the Sixth Sense: Six Cinquième's Brand Philosophy

Six Cinquième's brand name, pronounced "Six Cinquième" in French, reflects their unique approach. To them, it's not just about the five senses but also the elusive sixth sense - the 'aha moment.' Miro explains that this sixth sense often emerges during problem-solving, a fundamental part of their creative work. It's about finding innovative solutions and making the seemingly impossible, possible.

Humans have five senses, but we believe there is a sixth sense for creatives—the 'aha' moment.

Branding as a Culture Alignment Tool

Six Cinquième's approach to branding goes beyond aesthetics; it's a powerful tool for aligning internal culture. They emphasize the importance of involving employees in the branding process. Miro believes that when employees actively participate in shaping the brand, they become more connected to it, contributing to a cohesive organizational culture. Their philosophy is to bridge the gap between creative design and the people within the company.

Branding is a tool to align your culture. Employees should have a say in it; they should feel connected to it.

Hustle vs. Balance: Redefining Work Culture

Six Cinquième's perspective on work culture challenges the traditional "hustle" mentality. Miro acknowledges the need for ambition and hard work but highlights the dangers of burnout. Their philosophy is to maintain a healthy work-life balance while achieving excellence. He emphasizes the importance of preserving mental and physical well-being and says, "If you don't take care of yourself mentally and physically, it will catch up to you."

It's about creating a good environment and maintaining well-being. You're your number one asset.

Miro Laflaga's insights from Six Cinquième provide a refreshing perspective on branding, culture alignment, and work-life balance in the startup and tech scene. As they continue to evolve and grow, their vision is clear: staying small, agile, and intimate while creating meaningful impact in the world of branding and creative direction.

Find Miro on:

• LinkedIn: mirolaflaga
• Twitter: @mirolaflaga / @SixCinquieme

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: bcostantini
• Twitter: @bencostantini

Highlights

From Bus Driver to Blogger: A Unique Career Path

Liam's journey into the tech world is nothing short of fascinating. Starting in LA as a bus driver to pay for college tuition, he ventured into the world of startups after moving to France and starting a blog about the local startup scene. His journey began in 2011, and as he recalls, "I started a blog as a creative outlet," choosing the thematic colors of orange and black as the blog started in the spooky month of October. Little did he know that his creative outlet - Rude Baguette - would later become France's leading startup blog. As the blog quickly gained traction, he began exploring ways to better monetize the opportunity.

The Impact of Events (and English) on the Tech Ecosystem

From his community of readers, Liam noticed a demand for connections between startups, VCs, and founders. Readers would write to him to be put in touch with relevant parties that Liam had connections with or wrote about. Out of respect for the ethos of maintaining an editorial independence, Liam did not want to facilitate direct connections. Nevertheless, this was the window of opportunity he needed: to bridge this gap, Liam started organizing events as opportunities for networking among readers and in this way, giving them the opportunity to arrange meetings amongst themselves during the events. They soon discovered that one of the best filters for competitive startups was the fact that they had to participate in English. Naturally, any startup or participants interested in an international audience were willing to participate in English events.

The Rise of SaaS: What You Need to Know

During the conversation, Liam sheds light on the Software-as-a-Service (SaaS) model, explaining its fundamental principles. He emphasizes the importance of high gross margins in venture capital and how SaaS businesses excel in this regard. SaaS companies leverage predictability and recurring revenue streams, making them appealing to both investors and entrepreneurs. Understanding the SaaS playbook involves finding a niche, excelling in it, and delivering what customers are willing to pay for, all while ensuring they're delighted with the product. Liam's years of experience in the venture capital and SaaS space becomes apparent in how he details the perspective investors have in this domain. He shares insights for founders of SaaS startups to understand how to better capture investor interest.

From Marketing to Revenue Strategy: The Transition at Scaleway

Liam's career evolved from marketing into the role of Chief Revenue Officer (CRO) at Scaleway. He shares his perspective on marketing's role in revenue generation. Marketing, brand-building in particular, plays a vital role in driving organic demand generation, leading to lower customer acquisition costs for companies with strong brands. At Scaleway, this understanding allows the team to predictably forecast revenue and strategically plan product development.

Facilitating Great Conversations: Event Organizers Take Note

Liam's experience in organizing events highlight the value of facilitating meaningful conversations within the tech community. He emphasizes that events with a clear editorial focus, designed to foster engaging discussions, are the events that result in more lasting impacts. These conversations create valuable connections and contribute to the growth of the tech ecosystem, making them a crucial element of the industry.

This conversation with Liam provides a glimpse into the dynamic and ever-evolving world of tech startups, the power of events, and the strategic insights needed to thrive in the SaaS landscape.

Liam's journey from bus driver to tech influencer and CRO at Scaleway serves as a testament to the exciting opportunities that await those who embrace the tech scene with both passion and creativity.

Speaking of events, Liam will be at Station F in Paris on November 17th for Scaleway's first ai-Pulse event; a one-day technical conference dedicated to AI innovation, research & implementation 😉

Find Liam on:

• LinkedIn: liamboogar
• Twitter/X: @LiamBoogar

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: bcostantini
• Twitter/X: @bencostantini

Highlights

Unexpected Beginnings

The first of its kind: a social platform taking NSFW content to a whole new level, was originally conceived in entirely humble beginnings. Cindy shares how she didn't initially set out to create a business like MakeLoveNotPorn (MLNP). As a woman who dates younger men, over time she began to realize a common theme: people find it difficult to talk openly about sex and their expectations around it. Moreover: the lack of this communication has negative consequences on relationship. These expectations are developed, in part, by the consumption of sexual content that is typically not representative of real world sex: pornography, an industry notoriously designed for male-centered pleasure and a poor representation of reality in the bedroom.

Cindy decided to take action, launching a tiny website in 2009 that would eventually become a global social phenomenon. Her journey, initially unintentional, took a turn when she realized the profound social impact she could make.

"When we don't talk openly and honestly about sex, porn becomes sex education by default, and not in a good way."

Pioneering SexTech: Redefining an Industry

Cindy shares how she is not just building a business; she's creating a whole new category— SexTech. By defining and championing SexTech, she paved the way for innovation and disruption in human sexual and intellectual experiences. Her efforts have turned SexTech into a recognized category, attracting investors who are now starting to understand its potential.

"I've spent the past 14 years parallel pathing two things: working to build MakeLoveNotPorn and working to change the business and cultural context around it."

Listening to her detail her mission is nothing less than awe-inspiring. It is rare to meet a person whose conviction is contagious, and you can hear in her voice and attitude about MLNP that her success is inevitable.

The Battle to Survive: MakeLoveNotPorn's Resilience

Cindy shares her 14-year battle to keep MakeLoveNotPorn alive and thriving. Unlike most tech startups, her platform faces numerous challenges, including funding restrictions, banking issues, and advertising bans due to the stigma around adult content. According to Cindy, "The very fact MakeLoveNotPorn survives as a business after 10 years is extraordinary." She emphasizes the miracle of MakeLoveNotPorn's ten-year survival on just $3 million of funding, and rightfully so. With very little opportunity in mainstream advertising, and with anything adult-content related being flagged on social media, scaling MLNP is an obstacle that Cindy is determined to overcome.

Securing Investment in a Challenging Environment

Not only is traditional advertising technology (AdTech) a barrier to marketing, but in the world of SexTech, finding investors who align with your vision is a unique challenge as well. Cindy explains that investors in this space often share a personal connection to the topic, making it challenging to target them effectively. She shares in detail her unconventional investor-finding strategy, using opportunities to speak at tech conferences worldwide to actively promote her mission. She recommends that founders willing to break barriers should start by speaking at events, applying to speak on their topics, and leveraging video content to build their reputation. In her words, "Put yourself out there all the time... you want the places that record speakers, put them online because you can then... attract people to go, 'Ooh, I love what they said. You know, I'd like some of that as well.'"

The Future of MakeLoveNotPorn: Expanding Horizons

Cindy's ambitious vision extends beyond MakeLoveNotPorn. She outlines three innovative products she aims to develop:

• First, MakeLoveNotPorn.academy, a comprehensive sex education platform for all ages, addressing the gap in quality sex education. Or, as Cindy puts it, the "Khan-academy" of SexEd.
• Second, Cindy shares about another first-of-its-kind product: Consensual, a secure sexting app designed to improve communication and consent in intimate relationships. She details the app in this episode, explaining how it is different to anything else on the market, designed with the user's privacy and consent at the heart of all NSWF interactions.
• Finally, "Here for the Ads," a revolutionary AdTech product that serves engaging ads people actively want to watch. As Cindy describes it, "These are ads for products designed to help us all in these most intimate areas we're we're all desperate for help with"

Cindy Gallop's journey with MakeLoveNotPorn and her mission to redefine SexTech reveal the resilience and determination required to transform an industry. Her insights offer inspiration to founders facing unique challenges and a roadmap to success through innovation and perseverance. As the SexTech landscape evolves, we can expect to see MakeLoveNotPorn leading the way, revolutionizing how we think about and experience human intimacy. Creating an entirely new product category is not easy, and Cindy is an exemplary pioneer doing this exact work. Inspiring and motivating, her efforts are a fresh reminder to challenge the status quo.

We'd do well to remember, as Cindy aptly puts it, when you want to build something that will change the world, you have to "Change the world to fit your vision, not the other way around."

Find Cindy on:

• LinkedIn: cindygallop
• Twitter: @cindygallop
• Instagram: @cindygallop + @makelovenotporn
• Substack: Dear Cindy
• Medium: Make Love Not Porn

Find Ben on:

• LinkedIn: bcostantini
• Twitter: @bencostantini