Nobody Should Believe Me

In the second part of our exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, we discuss how the media coverage of her reached a fever pitch and turned her life and career upside down. We explore how not only the Netflix film but a high-profile piece in New York Magazine rewrote the narrative of the Kowalski case and Dr. Smith’s involvement to cast her as a villain. We unpack the stories of the four other families in the Netflix film—featured as examples of “false allegations” made by Dr. Smith—and uncover the more complicated truth about what happened to the children involved. We hear from Dr. Smith about how the media has stoked outrage and real-life threats and harassment against her, her coworkers, and her family. We see the horrifying truth that what happened to Dr. Sally Smith could happen to any doctor in her position; looking at how the conspiracy theory of “medical kidnapping” is being constructed and affirmed by media on both sides of the political spectrum. Read Dyan Neary's New York Magazine piece here: https://www.thecut.com/article/child-abuse-munchausen-syndrome-by-proxy.html Watch the full video of John Stewart here: https://www.tiktok.com/@blind_gossip/video/7295142757612588334?_r=1&_t=8gwrdSfC298 Records of the four families covered in the film here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=sharing Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In an exclusive interview with Dr. Sally Smith, host Andrea Dunlop travels to Florida to speak to the embattled child abuse pediatrician about her life and work and the Maya Kowalski case that saw her cast as the villain of a Netflix film. We get an inside look into Dr. Smith’s groundbreaking career as one of America's first board-certified child abuse pediatricians. We learn what it was like to face some of the most difficult cases imaginable all while raising two children of her own. And we see how the toughness necessary for her work led her to be ruthlessly judged in the public eye. This must-listen first installment of our season finale sets the stage for explosive revelations about the Kowalski case, the four other “falsely accused” families in the Netflix film, and much more. Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get50% off. If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this bonus episode, host Andrea interviews regular guest and friend of the show Jordyn Hope, a survivor of Munchausen by proxy abuse. Jo shares their personal story of revelations of abuse and recounts the emotional toll of constantly having to prove their own sickness. Andrea and Jo discuss the Maya Kowalski case and Jo provides insight into the parent-child dynamics, including the enmeshment, lack of boundaries, and parentification often seen in abusive situations. Andrea and Jo grapple with the complicated feelings around Maya's continued defense of her mother. Jo also opens up about how painful it is for survivors to hear their abuse erased and denied. They offer a message of validation and fight to other survivors struggling with self-doubt in the wake of this high-profile case. This is a thoughtful, nuanced discussion around the themes of voice, compassion, and the ripple effects of denying abuse. Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week Andrea examines how the harrowing and complex story of the Maya Kowalski case turned into a pop culture moment, and spread dangerous misinformation in the process. We continue our conversation with Ethen Shapiro, lead attorney for Johns Hopkins All Childrens, about how the media coverage of this case got so out of hand and the risks it poses to doctors and children going forward. We take a deeper look at how entertainment reporter Caitlin Keating stumbled onto the story at her job at People Magazine, and despite her questionable grasp of medical child abuse issues, made a movie about a complicated case that was subsequently viewed by millions of people. Andrea shares revelations from Beata Kowalski's blog, written disturbingly in her young daughter Maya's voice, and wonders how anyone can ignore its terrifying contents. Stay tuned for a sneak peek of our exclusive interview featured in our season finale. Read Beata’s blog: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=drive_link Megan Fox YouTube interview with Gregory Anderson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22eytc7v8oc&t=9693s Kat and Nat Unfiltered: https://catandnat.ca/new-blog/hhttps/openspotifycom/take-care-of-maya-with-caitlin-keating Guys We Fucked podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlbosK25e7U Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get50% off. If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Just when we thought the endless saga of Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrenswas over...it turns out it might only be beginning. In this episode, lead attorney for the Johns Hopkins All Childrens defense team,Ethen Shapiro, offers an insider's perspective on what happened in during the trial and what’s happened in the wake of it. Tina and Andrea discuss newly introduced evidence including Beata's requests to increase medications despite risks, Dr. Kirkpatrick's questionable diagnostic process, and communications illuminating Beata's substantial role in daughter Maya's care. Shapiro unpacks how harmful the verdict is for healthcare providers now unsure about reporting potential abuse and explains why the media coverage of this case and others like it is asymmetrical warfare. We discuss the motion for a new trial based on juror misconduct, what happens next, and what it all means. Read Beata's emails and view Ethen Shapiro's slide deck laying out the case: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1FpSFjvX_8WB5cgPCI0E_cpXj1jaeVcC4?usp=sharing Watch Ethen Shapiro's closing arguments on Law & Crime's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HBYKAN3BxM Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munchausensupport.com If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Remember that supporting our sponsors supports the show! This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We'll be back next week with five new episodes to close out Season Three! In the meantime, we're sharing a fascinatingconversation between Andrea and podcaster and author Jo Piazza on her show Under the Influence, which is all about women and the internet. They discuss how MBP manifests on social media and what to look out for. Follow Under the Influencer wherever you listen to podcasts:https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/munchausen-by-proxy-on-the-socials/id1544171101?i=1000629012835 Pre-order Jo Piazza's new novel Sicilian Inheritance here:https://www.amazon.com/Sicilian-Inheritance-Novel-Jo-Piazza/dp/0593474163 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the jury's stunning $242 million verdict in favor of the Kowalski family, host Andrea Dunlop looks at why this case has struck such a nerve on both sides of the political spectrum. She examines why some mothers accused of medical child abuse are viewed as monsters and others as martyrs. Andrea looks at the charges against social worker Cathy Bedy the woman who became the face of the child welfare bureaucracy during the Maya Kowalski case and examines her testimony. We also seek out answers about the troubled state of child welfare in America by talking to Dr. Jessica Pryce, author of the forthcoming book Broken: Transforming Child Protective Services—Notes of a Former Caseworker. Dr. Pryce shares heart-wrenching stories of mothers whose lives have been turned upside down by investigations and sets out a compelling and urgent case for an overhaul of CPS. With her inside view of the system, she also gives insight on how doctors and other mandated reporters can do the best for the families they want to help even within the current, deeply flawed system. This episode grapples with the complexity around reporting child abuse suspicions and the potentially chilling ripple effects of the explosive verdict in Kowalski v Johns Hopkins All Childrens. It examines the lack of support for struggling parents in America, while leaving the listener with urgent questions about justice and equity. Pre-order Dr. Jessica Pryce’s book here:https://www.amazon.com/Broken-Transforming-Protective-Services_Notes-Caseworker/dp/0063036193 Learn more about Dr. Pryce’s work on her website: https://jessicaprycephd.com/ Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munhausensupport.com If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Remember that supporting our sponsors supports the show! This show is sponsored by: BETTER HELP: Visit BetterHelp.com/BELIEVEME today to get 10% off your first month. FACTOR MEALS: Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As we continue to process the far-reaching implications of the shocking verdict in the Kowalski case, we take a closer look at Maya Kowalski’s testimony and what we know about her. She’s emerged as a divisive figure in the case: alternately being cast as a brave heroine or as a manipulator. But given the evidence of her possible abuse and the questionable motives of the adults surrounding her, the truth is far more nuanced. We bring in survivor Jordyn Hope and child and adolescent psychiatrist Dr. Mary Sanders to help unpack the impact of trauma on memory and the aftereffects of medical child abuse. As Maya continues to be thrust into the spotlight for a role she didn’t choose, we grapple with the outcome of what it could all mean for her. Munchausen Support accepts donations and volunteers at www.munhausensupport.com If you have a story about medical child abuse that you are ready to share you can tag @andreadunlop, email [email protected] or leave us a voicemail at (484) 768-0266 Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** This show is sponsored by: *Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months! *Better Help To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month. *FACTOR MEALS Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrea checks in with lawyer and trial consultant Jonathan Leach hours after the Kowalski verdict comes down. They talk about the judge’s decision to disallow testimony from the defense on medical child abuse, what happened with this jury, and the chances for a possible appeal for JHAC. With the medical community reeling from this news, Jonathan and Andrea unpack the dire consequences of the verdict and wonder — what now? Produced by Larj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos: @andreadunlop Buy Andrea’s books here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visit MunchausenSupport.com Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download the APSAC's practice guidelines here. *** This show is sponsored by: *Hello Fresh, America’s #1 meal kit Go to HelloFresh.com/50believe and use code 50believe for 50% off your first order plus 15% off the next 2 months! *Better Help To be matched with a licensed therapist, visit Betterhelp.com/BelieveMe to get 10% off your first month. *FACTOR MEALS Visit Factormeals.com/nobodypodcast50 and use code nobodypodcast50 to get 50% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Andrea and special guest Bex (aka our Florida pediatrcian friend) process the shocking verdict in the Maya Kowalski trial. After 9 weeks of testimony, the jury awarded the Kowalski family nearly $300 million in damages from Johns Hopkins All Children's Hospital. Bex shares her perspective as a pediatrician on how this verdict will impact the medical community and reporting of suspected child abuse cases. They discuss the implications for social workers and hospital staff who stood up and testified, and grapple with how the jury seemed to side with the emotional storytelling despite medical evidence. Andrea and Bex reflect on what this means for the U.S. justice system, mandatory reporting laws, and the public's willingness to accept that medical child abuse exists. Produced byLarj Media Follow host Andrea Dunlop on Instagram for behind-the-scenes photos:@andreadunlop Buy Andrea’sbooks here. For more information and resources on Munchausen by Proxy, please visitMunchausenSupport.com Note: This episode contains sensitive content related to child abuse. Listener discretion is advised. Download theAPSAC's practice guidelines here. *** Sponsored by: *Brilliant Earth Well-made and responsibly sourced. Find beautiful, unique styles atBrilliantEarth.com. *Better Help To be matched with a licensed therapist, visitBetterhelp.com/BelieveMeto get 10% off your first month. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices