Authentic 365

Author, Vice President of the GLAAD Media Institute, and Lutheran Deacon Ross Murray joins Edelman's Gurpreet Brar and Faith McIver in conversation to discuss his life and experiences as a spiritual person within the LGBTQ+ community.

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GLAAD said about Ross's recent book Everyday Advocate: Living Out Your Calling to Social Justice: "Drawing on his own experience, Ross encourages readers to discern their own call to advocacy, learn to identify injustices and respond faithfully by incorporating big and small actions into their everyday lives."

Dani D'Amico, McKinsey & Company New York Partner, joins Christiane Schulz, Edelman Germany CEO and GWEN (Global Women’s Equality Network) Lead, in conversation on an Authentic 365 Pride Takeover. USA Today recently reported that a review of leaders at America's 1,000 largest companies found that just 10 out of thousands of named executive officers identify as part of the LGBTQ+ community, underscoring the importance of increased representation. In this episode, Dani shares her experience as a transgender woman navigating a corporate leadership role and what it means to be a role model for future transgender executives. 

On the Frontlines for Trans Rights: A Conversation with Rep. Zooey Zephyr and Journalist Erin Reed 

Edelman’s Lauren Gray (she/her/hers) and Lou MacAfee (they/them/theirs) will host this episode, uncovering what it means to be on the front lines advocating for trans rights in the United States with Montana State House Representative, Zooey Zephyr (she/her/hers), and LGBTQ+ Journalist, Erin Reed (she/her/hers).  

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Representative Zooey Zephyr identifies as transgender and, in a recent high-profile incident that sparked controversy, was censured and banned from the House floor after speaking out against a bill that would ban healthcare for transgender youth. Erin Reed is a leading transgender journalist who writes for Erin In the Morning and recently wrote an influential point-by-point rebuttal in response to the alleged Missouri whistleblower on transgender healthcare.

This episode of A365 will discuss religious acceptance in the workplace and how we can all recognize various faiths in a respectful and inclusive way.  

Isabel Wong (Hong Kong) will lead the conversation with Eboo Patel, Founder and President of Interfaith America to address understanding and embracing different religious identities in the workplace, and how people and organizations can be more inclusive and supportive of diverse religions around the globe.  

Authentic 365 – Faith at Work

Isabel Wong [00:00:00] Hi, I'm Isabel Wong with Edelman, currently based in Hong Kong. Now for this episode we are going to have a deep dive into the topics of religious acceptance, best practices in the workplace for interfaith dialog, and how religious identities are very much part of the broader diversity and inclusion conversation. And joining me for this conversation is Eboo Patel, founder and president of Interfaith America. Eboo is also a former faith advisor to President Barack Obama. So, Eboo, thank you so much for joining us from Chicago. It's great to have you with us on the show.  

Eboo Patel [00:00:40] Isabel, it's great to be with you. Thank you for having me.  

Isabel Wong [00:00:43] Thanks for joining us. Now, before we kick start the deep dive conversation, in order to set the scene right, I would like to have you help us understand and give us a brief introduction to our international audience about the work that you do at Interfaith America.  

Eboo Patel [00:01:01] Sure. So about 25 years ago, I founded an organization called Interfaith Youth Core. Actually founded it when I was a graduate student at Oxford University. And we ran programs all over the world. And the big idea was that, we should, it was going to strengthen the global fabric to bring young people from different religious identities together, to discuss the shared values between their faiths and to act on those positive values like compassion and hospitality and service. As the organization developed, we rooted it in the country in which I'm a citizen of the United States, even though I was born in India and educated in part at Oxford. I'm an American citizen. I've grown up here. I feel most comfortable in this culture and the organization as we would have here in the big idea of the organization whose name is now Interfaith America, but which started as Interfaith Youth Core, is that religious diversity can be a great strength of a nation in a world if faith is a bridge of cooperation and not a barrier of division or a bludgeon of domination. That's the case at city level, at the national level, and certainly also at the company level. And I'm excited to talk to you, Isabelle, about how positively and proactively engaging religious diversity can strengthen the fabric at both Edelman and for Edelman's clients.  

Isabel Wong [00:02:27] Mm hmm. Yeah, I do very much look forward to our discussion as well. And I know that for this conversation, we are going to touch on the concept of religious diversity and also religious acceptance. So I just want to get your help to help our audience understand the concept of religious acceptance as well. And why is this so important?  

Eboo Patel [00:02:48] Sure. So so religious diversity is just a fact of our world and a fact of most nations in the world. Meaning that there are people from different religious identities who are living in close quarters together, whether that's in the United States or in India or Brazil or Australia or the United Kingdom or Morocco or South Africa. Anywhere in the world you have people from different religions living together, working together, studying together, playing on sports leagues together, etc.. We don't talk about religious acceptance at Interfaith America because we don't ask people from one religion to accept the doctrine of another religion. It's not about acceptance. It's about cooperation. The idea is not that that Muslims who believe that Jesus is a prophet of God, but not the son of God, should accept the Christian doctrine about Jesus. The idea is that Muslims and Christians should cooperate positively. So we speak of religious diversity, should give rise to interfaith cooperation where faith is a bridge and not a barrier.  

Isabel Wong [00:03:58] Yeah, I do very much agree with that as well. And the very foundation of it is also fostering a sense of, you know, ability to appreciate spiritual values, beliefs and faith based practices. You know, there are different from opposed by removing prejudices and stereotypes, which is very much the kind of work that you do also. And it requires mutual respect. Now, I would like to take a deeper dive into embracing religious diversity at work, because obviously when it comes to this topic, a lot of people would just be thinking, how can we really do that? And for authentic 365 this podcast, the kind of conversations that we create, are all about how can one really bring oneself authentically to work. And in our view, one must also feel comfortable to show all sides of himself or herself that includes one's religious identity, because religion is very much an essential part of personal and community identity. So. Eboo, from your perspective, should we speak about our religion, our faith at work? And if so, what is an authentic way to approach it?  

Eboo Patel [00:05:10] Sure. So, Isabel, I'm in a slightly adapt the question, and I'm going to say that I think it's important for any company, for for employees to feel like they can bring their best professional self to work and that that company is able to serve its clients and its customers and the community in which it is and in the best possible way. So the question for me is not can you bring your authentic self to work? I appreciate that. That's the question of this podcast. That's not my principle question. The principle question is, can you do your best work at work? And if you are Jewish and keep kosher and there is always a mixing of meat and cheese and there's never any kosher food available, you might not be able to do your best work if you are Hindu and are vegetarian, and there is meat in every dish at the cafeteria at work. You might not be able to do your best work if you are Muslim and you don't drink alcohol on account of your faith. In every social event at work involves copious quantities of alcohol, you might not be able to do your best work. And this is why it's important for a company to positively and proactively engage religious identity when it comes to their employees. To ask the question, can employees from different faiths do their best work here? Are there are we do we have an environment that is respectful of people's diverse religious identities? The framework we use that at my organization, Interfaith America is respect, relate, cooperate. Do you have an environment that respects the identities of diverse people, that encourages positive relationships between them, and that facilitates cooperation on common projects? The beautiful thing about companies is that the common projects are obvious, right? The client work that you're doing, the creative work that you're doing, the initiatives and campaigns that you're working on at Edelman, those are obvious. And so you have a shared project to encourage cooperation. And I think this is one of the reasons that companies can really be leaders in interfaith cooperation efforts, because you naturally have employees from diverse religions present. You naturally facilitate positive relationships through a close environment, and you have shared projects in which to encourage cooperation. There are many parts of who we are which are totally legitimate but but are probably not the best fit for the workplace. And what comes to religious diversity? A good example of this is conversion. It's perfectly legitimate for Christians or Muslims or somebody from a different religious identity or in fact a philosophical worldview like atheist who seeks to bring other people to their faith or worldview. It's a perfectly legitimate activity, but that's not what you want happening at a workplace. The question is how do you engage religious diversity in a way that encourages people to bring their best professional self to work again? People should be able to wear clothes that are appropriate for their religious identities. People should be able to eat the food that is required by their religious identity. People should have a place to pray. If they need to pray, they should have the appropriate days off if they need to take days off for religious holidays, etc. That's a positive and proactive engagement of religious diversity at work that encourages people to bring their best professional self without inviting dimensions of their identity, which are perfectly legitimate in other spaces and churches or mosques or temples, but not appropriate at work. So I would I would offer a framework that is different from authentic self or wholesale. I would offer best professional self.  

Isabel Wong [00:08:51] Mm hmm. Yeah. I really like how you mentioned that. And essentially, religious beliefs inform a person's identity, way of life and everyday activities and behaviors. And religious diversity can essentially make a workplace really inclusive in the sense of allowing opportunities for everyone to, you know, work through biases. And then essentially it will come into this positive impact that would result in diversity of thoughts, freedom of choice of beliefs and expressions. Now, obviously, when it comes to introducing and creating a safe space for religious diversity, it it has its challenges. So through the years that you work in this space, what are some of the common challenges that you've seen when there are multiple and diverse faiths represented in the workpl

This episode of A365 will discuss gender expression and identity in the global workplace.  

Rafael Franco (Brazil) leads the conversation with Edelman leaders to address several topics, including understanding and respecting pronouns, recognizing differences in inclusive language globally, navigating gender expression in the workplace and more. The episode will also explore the experiences of those within the LGBTQIA+ community in sharing their identity at work and in the world. 

Transcript

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's who you are to work after hours and back at home. Exploring every layer. Finding out what makes you uniquely you. And letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic. 365 A podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host, Danny Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people always. On this episode, we are engaging our colleagues across the globe in a conversation on gender identity, understanding that how gender is addressed and acknowledge shifts based on your location. Let's join the conversation now.

Rafael Franco [00:00:51] Hello. I'm Rafael from Brazil, Adama San Paolo. And we're here today to discuss to explore the stigmas around gender identity and expression, to go beyond the binary gender identity and expression at work. And for this conversation I have here, for different persons around the globe, we have Monika Tik Tok from Brazil whistles. She's a senior account manager. I will ask everyone to say your pronouns as well as tragedian director from Malaysia. Lauren Gray, Senior Vice President, New York Crisis and Reputation Risk Advisory. And Nick Nelson, Senior Vice President Austin. Welcome, everyone.

Nick Nelson [00:01:34] Glad to be here.

Monica Czeszak [00:01:36] Happy to be here, too.

Rafael Franco [00:01:38] So we just start with an open question to everyone. So one identity is important to us all, and should we be respected by everyone knowing the formal definition of gender identity and expression? What do those terms mean to you personally and your response? Again, please say your personal pronouns. Mo, you can you can start, please.

Monica Czeszak [00:02:03] Okay. Hi, everyone. Glad to be here. If everyone, I'm Monica. But let's see Mo for short. As you heard, my name is a little tricky. My pronouns are actually all the pronouns. And like the lady on the mall, that puts everything on the shopping carts. So he / she / they I'm comfortable with all of those. And to me, that's a special question because expression to me it's whatever I feel like that day. Sometimes it's braids, sometimes it's baggy clothes, sometimes it's nothing at all. I'm also very forth on getting out of that image that everyone that's nonbinary only wears pajamas. And I think expression is just feeling comfortable with yourself and being your best self every day, and that's particularly special at work. And I think respect only starts with us looking at each other and getting to know each other and asking questions and having safe spaces to ask those questions because it's not easy. Sometimes I'm very feminine, so people might assume I use she or her. Sometimes I'm very masculine, so people might assume similar he. But it's very fluid like gender and like expressions. So we have to be safe to ask each other questions and present ourselves as we are.

Rafael Franco [00:03:28] Okay, great. What about you, Asra?

Ezra Gideon [00:03:31] So yeah, my pronouns are he / him. I've recently transitioned from female to male about two years ago. And I guess, you know, I'm. How do I say this? It is more true to me being a he / him than it ever was before, you know, being in any other pronoun, to be honest. So it's most comfortable for me and this is the pronoun that I feel most myself. It's a little tricky here because the Malaysian language does not have a he / him / they / them, its all dia means they / he / she. So it's you know, it's it's an amazing language. Trouble is, in Kuala Lumpur, corporate language is still English. So but it's still kind of, you know, a yeah, there's a mix of of Malay and English. So it's it's not as difficult, I think, for us here in Kuala Lumpur as opposed to parts of other parts of Malaysia. But yeah, it's a it's those are the pronouns I'm comfortable within and I'm happy to to use whatever pronouns someone tells me they want. I will use that because I respected that, that they know themselves better than I do. So, you know. So, yeah.

Rafael Franco [00:04:52] That's great. Well, I'm making myself vulnerable here because I'm not a known non-native English speaker. So it's hard for us Brazilians as well to understand this gender way of speaking in English. So I will hand over to my English colleagues. My English speaker, English- speaking colleagues learning and make plays well.

Lauren Gray [00:05:17] Thank you so much. I actually wanted to start by just sharing a definition of gender identity and gender expression, just in case anyone who's listening in doesn't know those definitions. And these come from the LGBTQ+ advocacy organization GLAAD and its media reference guide online. Reporters can use that guide to help better understand and cover LGBTQ issues. For gender identity, it's really a person's internal, deeply held knowledge of their own gender. Everybody has a gender identity. For most people, it matches the sex that they were assigned at birth. For our transgender community members, it doesn't align with sex assigned at birth. And many people's gender identity is that of a man or woman. But for other non-binary community members, it just doesn't fit neatly into one of those two categories. And just to give you a little bit more context on that, there was a recent study by the Trevor Project that found that one in four Gen Z LGBTQ community members are non-binary with an additional other 20% questioning their gender identity, and one half of those Gen Z non-binary individuals actually don't identify as transgender. So what we're seeing is really a sea change in the breadth and variety of language that's being used to describe and understand how nuanced gender can be. For me, my pronouns are she her, hers. But as a member of the LGBTQ community, hearing people share their pronouns and seeing pronouns included in emails, signatures, or in zoom display names. It's really a signal of a more diverse, inclusive environment. And I think it's one of the very important things that our colleagues can do in the workplace as an outward sign of support for our community and for those who are also looking for other ways to be a stronger ally. I would encourage you to get to know your LGBTQ colleagues, acknowledge their partners or spouses or families in the very same ways that you would people outside of the LGBTQ community and read up on things, look at the news, watch what's happening as things develop, and try to acknowledge moments of significance to the community, moments when you have terrible setbacks and moments when we celebrate great progress.

Nick Nelson [00:07:38] Nick Yeah. Lauren Thank you so much for that. I think, you know, it's always helpful here and be reminded of my pronouns are he is and my name is Nick Nelson since I didn't start with that. I think one of the things that I am still learning is the conversation we're having right now. You know, I work in multicultural DEI space, and so I've had the privilege to learn about gender identity, gender expression, but I've also had to acknowledge my own privilege as a gender male and not having to understand people who don't identify in the same way. And it's been a really rewarding experience to learn so much and have conversations like these and facilitate conversations like these for clients and for our colleagues. And so I think what it means to me is just a learning experience still. You know, I'm 33 years old and I'm still learning so many things as if I was still in school. And I think that's been the great thing about this particular workplace, but especially the work that I do is it gives me an opportunity to educate and to bring clients and colleagues along on the journey with me. But it also provides an opportunity for me to learn more and then be more supportive of my colleagues who may not be who may not identify it the same way or feel confident or comfortable identifying the same way as I do. So I'm really glad to be in this space with you all and have this discussion because it's long overdue and it's always important to talk through and kind of hear the perspectives. And I am looking forward to walking away from this with a new perspective that I can then bring into my work and support everyone, you know, regardless of their walk in life.

Rafael Franco [00:09:35] And we have mentioned our journey to understand this this theme better. And also Lauren mentioned the pronouns on our email signatures. And this awake me about Monica because I have wrongly assumed her pronouns in the beginning as she / her only. And we never have talked about that before. So Mo, is there a best way to to make sure we are always using pronouns properly and inclusively, especially in a global firm like Edelman?

Monica Czeszak [00:10:12] Yeah. And I think that's the funny part because when you have different problems, sometimes it falls back to you to let people know about your names, but you're not always safe or comfortable with sharing. So when you have a widespread initiative like the email signatures, like Lauren said, you're showing other people that it's okay to introduce yourself and say your problems and ask people for their problems as well. To me since I relate

True connections must first be rooted in trust. In our latest Authentic 365 podcast episode, our hosts Dani Jackson Smith and Delicia Tan are joined by a panel of external experts to discuss the power and potential of authentic connection and how it can help build bridges to partnerships, sponsorships, new opportunities and more.

Featured in this episode: Carlos Correcha-Price, Chief Communications and Marketing Officer at eMed Digital Healthcare; Janaye Ingram, Director of Community Partner Programs and Engagement at Airbnb; Donald Knight, Chief People Officer at Greenhouse Software; and Natalie Rizkalla-Kamel, Intellectual Property Lawyer, Partner and Registered Trademark agent at Gowling WLG.

Transcript

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's who you are to work after hours and back at home. Exploring every layer. Finding out what makes you uniquely you. And letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic. 365 A podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host, Dani Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people, always. For a global day of belonging, me and my fellow co-host, the newly appointed Edelman, Hong Kong CEO Delicia Tan, explored the power and potential of authentic connection with an all star panel. This conversation highlights the process of building true connections and how to remain authentic as they shift at different phases in your career. Our guests include Carlos Correcha-Price, Chief Communications and marketing officer at Image Digital Health Care. Janaye Ingram, Director of Community Partner Programs and Engagement at Airbnb. Donald Knight Chief People Officer at Green House Software. And Natalie Rizkalla-Kamel, intellectual property, lawyer and partner and registered trademark agent at Gowling, WPLG.  

Delicia Tan [00:01:21] I'll kick off with our first question. True connections must first be rooted in trust. What are some of the ways that you've worked to build trust with colleagues, partners, or even communities? Perhaps, natalie, would you like to get the ball rolling?  

Natalie Rizkalla-Kamel [00:01:36] I work as an attorney in an international law firm, and there are so many different kinds of relationships in that environment where building trust and connections are so important. One connection that I do dedicate a lot of time to is building connections with associates who are junior to me. I try not to be just that work provider, but I try to be a mentor by action and not just by name. What I mean by that is, as I was growing up in this law firm, I had those formal mentors that were assigned to me. But then I chose who those informal mentors would be, and those were people that I trusted. And so what I do to try and be an effective mentor is make it known that both my physical and virtual door is always open. I reach out to them for catch up sessions. I get them involved in interesting initiatives and look for ways to advance them by maybe sending a note to management on what a great job they've done or nominating them for awards. Internal and external to the firm. And these kinds of connections are so crucial in such a high stress environment, because you need to feel like you're a part of a team. And it increases morale and keeps people in this field of law where we're seeing the great resignation and so many people leaving. So I do really value and spend a lot of time on that kind of relationship. But what I wanted to talk about a little today is this new way of making connections that I started with two of my partners. We started a LinkedIn newsletter called Taking Up Space. We're three female, diverse partners with seven kids between us, and we all have distinct experiences about being diverse women, trying to make it in our careers, about parenting. And over the years, we noticed there's a lot of obstacles, a lot of struggles and inequity in the field of law. But we really didn't do anything or say anything, and we just wanted to fit in and not really show we're different because we're just sort of grateful to be part of this profession. But we finally had the courage this year to launch this newsletter without getting express permission from our law firm to do it and to just break the silence on being open and honest about the struggles that we faced and continue to face being diverse, female partners in a large law firm. We talk about our successes, but also setbacks and give advice to a younger audience. And I have to say, being transparent and open about our struggles in a profession that doesn't really encourage that was scary. We were worried about backlash from our firm and from the profession as a whole, but we decided that this is what we're going to do as our own personal brand and being authentic and really trying to effect change. And we would go for it, and it's turned out to be a pretty gratifying experience. We connected with so many people because of this newsletter. I think we brought humanity back into law, and we've just connected with women and men and those people junior to us and and former clients and now new clients, which I can speak about a little bit later. But that was this new way of forming connections that I think was pretty pivotal in my career this year.  

Delicia Tan [00:05:29] Most definitely. I think that's really cool that, you know, you took the opportunity and really then seize that that space to really not ask for permission, but to really do what was right in terms of making that connection and driving that further, which is related to another question that love to ask Janaye. Janaye, sometimes people may feel led to assimilate or mask who they are to build connections. What are your thoughts on this and why is authenticity important?  

Janaye Ingram [00:06:00] Yeah. Well, thank you for that question, though. I think it's it's it's a hard thing when people feel like they can't be authentic. Right. They have to they have to show up in a different way. And specifically, I think when a lot of times when it comes to marginalized folks, you feel like you cannot show up and be your true self. You have to somehow pretend that the aspects of you that make you different or unique within the larger majority, you need to minimize those things. And I actually think that that's really a detriment. I think when we explore and showcase the things that make us unique and the things that make us different and live as our authentic selves. That really is a strength because it allows people to to learn and to discover things about themselves, things about you. And so I encourage people not to try to minimize the aspects of themselves that are different or, you know, even things that we're working on. Quite frankly, I think when I think about authenticity, I think the things that make someone truly authentic and make people feel like someone is truly authentic is being vulnerable. And that includes talking about your weaknesses, not just talking about your strengths and showcasing the things that you're really proud of, but also acknowledging that, hey, we're all human and we all have things that we want to work on. And so leaning into that, being vulnerable, saying when you make a mistake, being big enough to own up to that, I think it's about being honest. And I know sometimes when we talk about being honest, especially in work, you might get a project or your boss might ask you to do something that you really don't want to do. And I think even in those instances, there are ways that you can be honest. There are ways that you can have the honest conversation and share. You know, this is not something that I am, you know, really excited to do, but I understand the need for it. And so I'm willing to jump in and do the thing that you've asked me to do, even though I might not feel like it's a strength of mine. And so things like that, where, where we're able to be honest and we're able to say, you know, even even when we don't want to do something, we're able to share that in a, in a non brutal way. We talk about brutal honesty. Honesty doesn't have to be brutal. Honesty can be handled in a delicate way. It can be handled with tact. But I think honesty is another part of being authentic. And the last one, the last thing that I think about when I think about authenticity is managing expectations. And there's this whole notion of, you know, don't don't, don't under-promise and or sorry, don't overpromise and under-deliver. You want to do the opposite. You want to show up in a way that's bigger. But I think even more than that, I would actually say it's about managing those expectations and helping people understand what you can and what you can't do. And not saying, Oh, I'll do, you know, I'll give you the moon and the stars and really you can't deliver on that. So I think for people who feel like they cannot show up in and be their true selves, it really limits their ability to be authentic. And I think that that comes at a cost because when people think that you're not authentic, it impacts the way that they treat you, it impacts the way that they deal with you. And I think it potentially even limits the opportunities that you have, the growth that you can have. So tapping into your authentic self and really recognizing that there's strength and power in even the weakest part of the thing that you think is the weakest part of you, their strength even in that and in acknowledging that and it will allow you to go a lot further.  

Dani Jackson Smith [00:09:43] That is powerful. I love the words that I'm hearing already in terms of honesty and courage. Carlos, question for you, or at least to start off with you, we know that connections and relationships change over time. And so when we consider authenticity

What does it mean to be a Gen-Z professional? It's about bringing your authentic self to the table in new ways and unapologetically searching for transparency and truth. In this episode, four Gen-Z Edelman colleagues chat about how they show up as their authentic selves—at home, at work and when interacting with brands. 

TRANSCRIPT

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's who you are at work after hours and back at home exploring every layer, finding out what makes you uniquely you and letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic 365, a podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host, Dani Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people Always Edelman released the power of Gen Z Trust and the Future Consumer Report. The data identifies Gen Z as the generation of sensibility, breaking through myths and assumptions that Gen Z is simply the influencer generation cancel generation or TikTok generation. On this episode of Authentic 365, our London co-host Jermaine Dallas will be leading a conversation on Gen Z and authenticity from time spent at home and work to interacting with brands and finding truth in a sea of opinions. You will hear personal stories direct from people that identify as Gen Z.

Jermaine Dallas [00:01:09] My full Gen-Z guests are from four different countries, and they have their own experiences to share with us. So first of all is Ali Al, ultimately who is an associate research analyst from Edelman's research DXI, Ali is based in our Chicago office. Next up is Asha Jani. Asha is an Account Executive from Edelman's Brand team in London. Then we have Kristen Bettencourt's, who is an account executive and influencer marketing based in Toronto. Finally, we have Sebastian Nicholas Schifrin, who is a senior account executive in the Paris brand team. So thanks everyone for joining us on the show today. What do you expect from brands--going to come to you first, Kristen, what you expect from brands and what will influence the purchase decisions that you make, how you sort of like an activist when it comes to choosing the brands that you buy from? Or are you more driven by price?

Kristen Bettencourt [00:02:10] Yeah, I think when brands create relatable content, I'm someone that's very into fashion and lifestyle content, and I make a lot of my influence based on like, let's say, I follow an influencer. I see something come up on my for you page that I really like, like, for example, like those in North Face jackets are really popular, really kind of all around the world and everyone's wearing them and you see everyone kind of build different outfits with them. So that's kind of what drives my purchase. And even though it is a little bit more pricey, but you can see it's very diverse and you can wear them with a lot of different outfits. So when I see brands create relatable content, I know that definitely drives it. I know when we work with influencers and we work with like a specific type of influencer for a campaign, and they're creating that content that really relates to their brand, for example, and are working with HP and we work with the tech influencer them just like really getting into detail and spitting the facts and reviewing all the details of the product. You can really see how engaged their audience is because they really want to see every detail and that you're hitting all the questions.

Jermaine Dallas [00:03:22] So I know you do work with influencers a lot anyway, Kristen. But do you think the influencers really do matter then when it comes to two Gen-Z and making the purchases they make?

Kristen Bettencourt [00:03:34] I definitely do think they have a big influence because I know it works on me. Sometimes I know sometimes I'll be very rash on my decisions, so I'll see something come up and I know it's going to maybe sell out right away because the specific influencer wore it. I know that and I'm not the only one in my friend group thought that happens. Do, and we do see a lot of ROI with our our brands and like them, getting really good engagement on their posts and their click through rates have been amazing. And so we've been seeing results and we've definitely been seeing positive feedback.

Jermaine Dallas [00:04:09] Ali, are you driven by influences?

Ali Almeflehi [00:04:15] I would have to say no. So I'm not particularly social media guy, right, like I don't spend so much time on social channels, but when I do, I'm looking for content that I particularly like like, you know, business content, entrepreneurship content, stuff like that. I will say just to kind of tackle, you know, how how to get to someone like me who is young but may not be necessarily on social all of the time. You know what you say on social media matters, and I'll give you an example. I love a brand who can crush communications with Gen Z, right? Like a brand who can show up authentically in, you know, these kind of social platforms or these little hubs and destroy communications. And I'll give you an example. I was recently I was recently in in Portugal. I just got back two days ago, right? And I went to I went to Spain for the weekend, kind of like in between. And I realized that I love Spanish, like I love Spanish. I need to finish learning Spanish. And the first brand that came to mind was Duolingo. And now we have a bunch of like Gen-Z people here, and they're shaking their heads because, you know, like, this is a brand that is absolutely destroying communications with Gen Z, and they're super authentic. You know, they're really, really funny. They're they kind of, you know, balance communicating with us in the way that we like. And so that influenced my kind of decision to use Duolingo to kind of learn vocabulary and stuff like that. So those are the things that drive my purchase decisions when I'm scrolling you and the little time that I use TikTok and I see a brand like, you know, in the comments being like, really funny or I see a brand, it's like, you know, helping someone, you know where there was a there was, you know, something was light was shedded on like a particular problem that young people, you know, brought to the surface and then a brand tackled that problem. I love that. I think that's amazing.

Ali Almeflehi [00:06:21] So I love the lingo as well. I just find that that a passive aggressive when you miss a couple. Oh, my goodness. Asha, what about you? Is the is the the brand communications important or is it all about the products themselves?

Asha Jani [00:06:37] I think for me, it's all about how a brand shows up consistent consistently across all aspects of life it touches, so not necessarily just what they're doing on social or what they do in their communications, but also, yeah, how that all marries up. So with this product, people through to what it's putting out on its platform is all about how that matter is open and is consistent with each other from one holistic brand point. And I think the big thing for me probably is is that people piece and the I think especially with, you know, such a pivotal and tumultuous time that we're living through at the moment with climate change and COVID 19. And, you know, like social justice, I think the key thing to remember is that Gen Z are watching what your how you're interacting with your people and that is influencing what we're going to buy from you now. And also what we're going to buy from you in 10 years time, in 15 years time. And I think for me in particular, with with influencers any just mentioned, I think that they'll probably impact me on sort of cheaper short term purchases, but for the long term, more expensive investments. I don't feel that they they influenced me on the day to day, which I think is interesting. So if I see an influencer, you know, pushing a piece of clothing, I might be more inclined to buy it. But in terms of more expensive purchases, like some some tech or even, you know, however many years time when I start to buy things for a house, for example, I'm not sure that influenced me that then it will be more about the brand as a whole. And yeah, I think that's where I stand on it.

Jermaine Dallas [00:08:24] So I'm hearing that the influences are important in certain situations. So all the stuff that the broader comes in, especially elements of purpose as well. Nicholas, what what influences you when you shop?

Sebastien-Nicolas Chiffrin [00:08:40] I think I'm going to have to thread it with Kelly on that on that one. I'm not sure that I I don't much get influenced by influencers to get a product. I don't think that I'm expecting brands to show up on certain things. I'm more expecting from myself to make sure that when I'm purchasing something that aligns with my beliefs and what I should wear, I should buy from. I mean, it's just that I'm not going to buy a product if I think that it does not fit with why I believe in the long term. But if I'm truly interesting in something like right now, I have a huge interest in my skin because of of the mask that we are wearing, and I'm seeing a lot of pimples going out and I'm like going crazy in the mirror every day and every night looking on a way to just remove them. So I started following a trend through and certain friends with skincare and beauty influencer just to have a better sense of What should I buy? And and it's not like influencer that I'm looking for, just like I'm searching for different sources and different people that like me, people that try the product. And that said, OK. And if I if I'm seeing like a lot of reviews that are that are saying that the product is the good one is a good one and you'll see the results that you're expecting, then definitely I will buy it. But it still has to fit with my beliefs. Like if if the brand are int

It is the last day of Black History Month in America. Here at Edelman our theme has been Joy-full: Manifesting Wellness and Unity with programming that has prioritized self-care and community along with personal and financial health. As a bonus episode for this month, Dani Jackson-Smith talks with Dr. Jason Chambers author of Madison Avenue and the Color Line: African Americans in the Advertising Industry about the importance of understanding history. 

TRANSCRIPT

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's all you are at work after hours and back at home exploring every layer, finding out what makes you uniquely you and letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic 365, a podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host. Danny Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people always. Its the last day of Black History Month in America, and here at Edelman, our theme has been Joy-full: Manifesting Wellness and Unity with programing that has prioritized self-care and community, along with personal and financial health. As a bonus episode for this month, I'll be talking with Dr. Jason Chambers, author of Madison Avenue and the Color Line African-Americans in the Advertising Industry and note, he is also my former professor at the University of Illinois. Dr. Chambers, let's start with this Where are you from?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:01:02] I am originally from Central Ohio, a small town named London, Ohio, which probably most people have never heard of. But it's about 20 minutes outside Columbus, so it's almost right smack dab in the center of the Great State of Ohio.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:01:14] When did you first start getting passionate about advertising?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:01:18] You know, I'm one of those weird people who always kind of paid attention to advertising. I can remember watching it, watching commercials on Saturday mornings in-between cartoons, back when kids still did such a thing. So I've always kind of had an interest in advertising. I've always been one who kind of paid attention to advertising. I always I grew up in the last heyday of the jingle, the advertising jingle. So I've always liked advertising in some form, some form or fashion, even from a very young age.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:01:48] OK, so at what point did you say or begin to shift this passion for advertising into really digging into the history of advertising?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:01:58] That was something for me that came in graduate school. I'd always had an interest in media. For example, I edited a Black newspaper, Black student newspaper when I was an undergraduate, so I was always going to go either. You know, I was always going to be in some way shape or form connected to media, whether it was going to be journalism, whether it was going to be advertising, whether it was going to be something in the realm of of production. So I'd always had an interest in media. But I went to when I went to graduate school to get an advanced degree, advanced degrees in history. It really was a set of classes that I took that studied consumers and studied the way that people had evolved as consumers. And I combine that with an interest, a growing interest then of studying the history and the story of African-American business enterprises, African-American as business owners and a variety of industries, or African-Americans, as high level employees, executives and a variety of industries, so that the various things media and advertising and business, those interests kind of all came together into a study of African-Americans' participation in the advertising industry. What we have been able to do as business owners, as high level employees, how we had or had not been able to matriculate in the advertising industry. Those are those things all came together at that point.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:03:18] And what really stood out for you in the research that was that you were beginning to do at the graduate level?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:03:26] I think the things that stood out for me, perhaps not so not so much in a good way, is the way that our story in advertising had really been obscured or ignored or overlooked. One of the things about history that you learn is that it's not that stories don't exist, it's that stories just haven't been told or stories just haven't been known. And so for much of advertising history, for much of advertising story was really a story of White men. We didn't even really, this is back in the 1990s, early 2000s, I got my Ph.D. in 2001, so I'm in graduate school in the 1990s. Back then, we didn't even really consider the story of women. It was still rare to consider the story of women White, Black or otherwise in advertising. So advertising was very much a story of what what had White men done in concert with other White men. So White men on the advertising agency side of things and White men on the client side of things, how the two of the two of those groups come together to form the relationship that we've come to know between advertising agencies and clients. So even in the landscape of women, we might have winch and one woman's name. If you'd studied advertising extent, the story of advertising extensively, maybe you heard the name of Helen Reese, or maybe you you'd heard the name of Mary Wells Lawrence. But other than that, you didn't get any story of the role of women in advertising that had been overlooked or not really told at that time. And certainly a company that would have been the story of African-Americans. And so based upon what I knew of African-American history, I can say with confidence that confidence that there is virtually no industry, none whatsoever. There is no industry in America that African-Americans have at least not tried to enter in some way, shape or form. You can't find one. Now, whether or not we were able to do so, whether or not we were able to be successful in doing so, that's a whole other question that's getting into the details. But in terms of whether or not we tried to be in advertising or whether or not we had tried to be in a particular industry, I knew that there had to be a story there and I wanted to find that out because even even if we were absent from the industry, let's just say the the stories of African-American absence and advertising were correct, then I felt that there had to be a story there as to why we had been absent. Why hadn't we've been able to operate in the area of advertising? Why had we perhaps chosen not to try to operate in the area of advertising? Because the the history of African-Americans in newspapers, the you know, that original form of print media, the stories of African-American newspapers go back as far as there's almost as far as there's been anything worthy of calling it the United States of America. So if we'd been in newspapers and it doesn't take a genius to see, you didn't have to be a genius publisher or editor to see the value of advertising dollars to your newspaper, then there had to be some. I knew there had to be have had to have been some effort for African-Americans to get into advertising. And I wanted to and I wanted to know what happened.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:06:31] I am over here smiling because I remember sitting in your advertising history class as well as your race and ethnicity class at the University of Illinois and just learning so much. What was the journey like starting those classes?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:06:47] The advertising history class had been there even before I had arrived. That had been something that had been in some way shape or form, part and parcel of the of the department. Even, you know, almost from the very beginning, when it was founded by Charles Standage, the race class was a little bit different because the race and ethnicity class. Even back then, you know, you're still having to assemble a lot of, you know, disparate materials because, you know, we didn't have really an extensive there's not really an extensive historiography or is not really an extensive area of academic study that that it tried to capture the story of race and ethnicity, its connection to advertising, the role of African-American consumers, the role of consumers of any race or ethnicity. So trying to capture that and encapsulated into a class it and make it make sense, it was challenging. It's gotten it's gotten subsequently easier over the years. But you know, our respect for the industry's respect for consumers of various races and ethnicities is something that has ebbed and flowed over the years and depending upon how it's either ebbing or flowing, dictates the level of resources. In some way, shape or form dictates the level of resources that are available to use for instruction in some ways.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:08:03] What year was it when you when you taught that class the first time?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:08:06] That would have probably been around 2006, 2007.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:08:09] When I think about that class, which I still have the course packet for and I use as a reference and a resource. I think about then the journey to you as an author and the publishing of your book Madison Avenue and the Color Line, which I believe was three years later in 2009. Is that correct? That's correct. I'm thinking about what you just shared, you know, the lack of resource and a lack of information there. And how did you see creating Madison Avenue and the color line filling that gap?

Dr. Jason Chambers [00:08:43] That's an excellent way to put it Dani, because that's exactly how I saw it was filling that gap because of the resources that were available that that purported to tell the story of advertising, you know, the books like the mirror makers or Soap Sex and Cigarets

EPISODE 2 – PROFESSIONAL TROUBLEMAKER  

Fear—how do you overcome it, embrace it and turn it into action for change? To discuss this, Edelman's Dani Jackson interviews two-time New York Times best-selling author, Luvvie Ajayi Jones, on her latest book—"Professional Troublemaker"—and how she uses fear as a driver to do more.  

PROFESSIONAL TROUBLEMAKER TRANSCRIPT

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's who you are at work after hours and back at home exploring every layer, finding out what makes you uniquely you and letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic 365, a podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host, Danny Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people, always. At the top of this year's select offices across our U.S. network read Professional Troublemaker: The Firefighter Manual, a tremendously successful book from the now two time New York Times bestselling author Luvvie Ajayi Jones. This episode features our conversation with the Luvvie about the book, and later in the podcast, our employee network groups Gwen and Griot shared their commitment about also being professional troublemakers. So Luvvie, 17 year blogging professional New York Times bestselling author for I'm Judging You the Do Better Manual, multiple podcasts. What inspired you to write Professional Troublemaker: The Firefighter Manual at this time?

Luvvie Ajayi Jones [00:01:12] Yes, I wanted to write this book right now because I feel like the subject of fear is urgent. It feels urgent. Because we are at a time, I mean, when I pitched this book, I didn't know you're going to end up in a global pandemic. But for me, I understand that my career is where it is and what it is today because of the moments that I have dared to do something that felt too big. Something that felt scary, you know, and I think about my TEDTalk being one of those things. I, I have a TEDTalk that not has five million views, and I almost didn't do it. I said no to a twice. I turned it down twice because I was afraid of not being ready to take that stage. I was afraid that I wasn't. I wasn't at the place where I wouldn't bomb or that, you know, I wasn't. I didn't have time to prepare because Ted does not play about their speakers. You know, Ted official make speakers, get coaches. You have to wonder script through the ringer and I turned it down. This is 2017 and the third time they came around about the same event. I was about to turn it down when my friend Eunique Jones Gibson and I called her and I was like, Listen, it's kind of crazy because it's three weeks before Ted and they want me to come and speak. And I was like, everybody else has had a coach, everybody else has had their talks figured out for months and here I am, about to come in three weeks to go. Eunique told me, Everybody ain't you. So I want you to get off my phone and go write this talk and kill it. And what Eunique did in that moment which you loaned me courage I didn't have for myself and I got on that stage and I killed it. And ever since the talk came out over three years ago, I've gotten thousands of messages from people all over the world telling me what their talk did for them. You know what impact that it had, and it had me thinking, like, how often? Do we say no to yes opportunities that could transform our lives, how often do we let fear stop us from doing what we're supposed to do? And I realized that in the moments when I have not let fear stop me, when I've been like, I know, I'm afraid, I know this is big. I know this might feel scary. And I choose to move forward any way, I win. So when it was time to determine what I am writing, what I was writing about, I felt convicted to write it about fear and. I really wanted to use that as a gateway, because in this world, for us to do better, which is what I asked for us to do for book one, we're going to have to do a lot of scary things. And what does that look like? It looks like we're going to be making trouble. We're going to have to be professional troublemakers. And that's actually how I introduce my TEDTalk because to make trouble in this world, it's to disrupt for the greater good. It is to continuously do the things that are scary because you want to hope that you are making some type of positive change, whether at work or at home or just with your friends. And that's why I wrote this book because I feel like. We need to use fear as a driver. We're not weak because we are afraid. We got to actually commit to the fact that to be fearless is just that you're not going to do less because of fear. So, you know, me being the professional troublemaker, I was like, This is the book that I want to write, because it's the book that I need. This is a book that I want to read in the moments when I get another option, another opportunity to do something like a TED talk or something that feels really big. I want this book to be like somebody else's permission to do that scary thing and be audacious no matter what margins that you live in. And it was really important that that I wrote this book because as a black woman who has a lot of reasons to cower in this world, a lot of reasons to, you know, not honor myself, a lot of reasons to fail because the world is rooting for me to fail. I wanted to write this book because I wanted people to see my audacity and hopefully unloading them courage that my friend did for me. So I want people to be loaned courage with my book.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:05:17] 100 percent, this book does that, and I've already started loan in my book out to friends and family. Now tell me, how were you influenced by John Lewis, who we know as Freedom Rider, civil rights activist, U.S. representative that encourages us all to make good trouble?

Luvvie Ajayi Jones [00:05:34] I quote the late, great John Lewis because he talked about us making necessary good trouble, and it's really good for us to use that as perspective. Because when people see like, Oh my god, profession troublemaker, that sounds bad. I'm like, No, that's not a bad thing. The people who make the good trouble in the world are the people who are sitting in the meetings and challenging the idea. That's not great. You know, they're the people who are sitting at the dinner table when the uncle makes an inappropriate joke and say, Eh, that's not cool. Professional troublemakers are the ones who are making sure they're elevating the rooms that they're in. And what John Lewis was asking us to do was to make trouble in our lives in the world. For the greater good like trouble looks like what he did on that bridge, right? But trouble also looks like having a hard conversation with a friend that you know is necessary. Trouble looks like challenging a coworker, thoughtfully challenging them. And I think for us, we shouldn't silence troublemakers. We shouldn't run away from making trouble. We should actually run towards it and realize that it is necessary. We have to make trouble for the world that we want to see. So let's let's normalize troublemaking.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:06:45] Hmm. Stay in good trouble. I am so on your page. So what do you say to those that want to be professional troublemakers but are thinking, I'm no Luvvie, I'm no John Lewis.

Luvvie Ajayi Jones [00:06:56] One, acknowledge the fact that we are afraid day to day small things, big things, right? So a lot of times people are not feeling like they are strong because they're feeling afraid. And I'm like, No, no, we're always going to have something. Life is going to throw something at us, and I want us to not turn our fears into these big dragons. You know these we will be afraid of asking for a raise because we're like, What if they say no? What if they say no? Did you die? You know? And I think about the fact that sometimes the thing that we're afraid of, it gets created into this big monster that takes up a whole room. And all we got to do is slay the dragon because we created the dragon. And what that looks like day to day is you thinking, you know, if I speak up in a meeting, Oh my God is going to write me up and am I going to get fired? You know, if you are working at a company that will fire you for challenge for thoughtfully challenging a coworker, that's not the company for you. But most companies do not fire you for it, right? And there might be different microaggressions that are attached to it. But I often think about how we will opt out of the best case scenario for because of the fear of whatever that worst case scenario is. We will act out of doing what is our obligation, our job, because we're afraid of that mosque that we've built up in our heads, we're afraid of getting fired. And I'm always like, You know what? Quantify your decisions. Put it on paper, what is the worst case scenario if you do get fired somehow because you spoke up in the meeting? Well, do you not have a savings account? And I'm talking to people who are privileged. You know, when I when I say that we should be troublemaking, we should be disrupting rooms. I'm talking to those of us who can especially afford to. We're not in acute danger of losing our homes, our livelihoods. And so when we build up these fears and we're like, Oh, well, if I get fired, what if you get fired? Do you become, do you lose your home, you become homeless? Do you lose everything you've ever worked for? Can you get another job? Is this the only job is the only company? And we're constantly acting out of that best case scenario because of all these fears and all the things that we tie to the actions we do. And I'm like. Covid should have given us more perspective, and I hope it does. In that that's what fears for, you know, keeping us

EPISODE 1 – DEFINING AUTHENTICITY  

Authenticity has no formula or a singular definition—that's why it's so powerful. Tune in to our global squad of Edelman hosts as they define what authenticity means to them and share how they break barriers and bring their full selves to work every day.  

TRANSCRIPT

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:01] It's who you are at work after hours and back at home. Exploring every layer, finding out what makes you uniquely you and letting that shine back out into the world. It's authentic 365, a podcast that takes a glimpse into how some of the most inspiring people among us express themselves and make magic happen. I'm your host, Dani Jackson Smith, VP at Edelman by day, community enthusiast and lover of the people always. Hola good people. This is our first episode and our first roundtable discussion. I'm so excited to have our international co-host DeliciaTan, Rafael Franco and Jermaine Dallas on deck as we discuss defining authenticity. What's up, everybody?

Rafael Franco [00:00:45] Hello.

Delicia Tan [00:00:46] Hi, everyone.

Jermaine Dallas [00:00:46] Hey.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:00:47] So I got the idea to create this podcast because authenticity and the pursuit of authenticity create space for our humanity, often showing us how we're more alike than we are different. And tapping into what it means personally, professionally, in the moment and even over time. But what does it really mean to be authentic? Let's kick off with each of us sharing a bit about ourselves and our take on authenticity. Del, let's start with you.

Delicia Tan [00:01:13] Hi, I'm Alicia, and I'm based here in sunny Singapore. I am the managing director of client growth and innovation and a proud eighth generation Singaporean. For me, authenticity has always been a challenge. I've grappled with reconciling Asian values with who I am as an individual. Primarily because as I was growing up, I was always thought to be myself. However, the Asian values of collectivism and supporting the community may not exactly be in that wheelhouse. So for me, something I've grappled with, but my definition of authenticity is really about a person who acts in accordance with their own desires, motives, ideals or beliefs, and also is able to express who she really is.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:02:01] Yes, Del, I can relate to your definition of authenticity, and I look so forward to hearing more about what it means to really be eighth generation Singaporean. Jermaine, what are your thoughts?

Jermaine Dallas [00:02:14] So I am Jermaine based in London and I am a senior writer. Is my job title in my day job at Edelman. And in terms of authenticity, I think I would describe it as your ability to be yourself and every which way possible. And for me, it's about not having to wear a mask. I think if you are and yourself and in this the same sort of person in the different settings and you don't feel like you have to wear some sort of mask and have some sort of veneer over over who you really are. I think that's the real definition of authenticity.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:03:00] Right on drop the mask drop the veneers be the same person in different settings. Raf, what are your thoughts?

Rafael Franco [00:03:10] I'm Rafael. I'm work in the San Paolo office in Brazil. I'm a senior account executive in the Brant area, one of the leaders of the D&I group here, and cisgender gay white male. When I came out sixteen years ago, it was a very different time. More prejudiced society. It took a while for me to tell my parents, but the hardest part was to accept myself. And when I did that, it wasn't one of the moments when I felt authentic. And so that's why authenticity is strongly linked to my gay self. I could say that. And but in general, I can say that authenticity is the freedom to bring your whole self to everywhere you go to express yourself as you wish to not limit your thoughts, your speech. But always respecting others as well. If you don't limit their chance to be authentic as well.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:04:09] You can't see me when I'm over here taking notes because you are dropping as what we were, say jewels. Key elements that people should tune into, right? So giving people space to be their whole self, right, who you are, who I am may not be exactly the same. And that's OK. I have to give you some room, give you some space. I googled authentic, and the definition that comes up is genuine. And mindtools.com also knows that being authentic is being true to your own personality, values and spirit. For me, authenticity shows up when I'm aligned with my internal motivation. I find that that changes over time, right? As I change over time, my aspirations change and my motivations also shift. So I can't be my authentic self trying to align to the Dani that was 15 years old. Wow. Of course, I still have core values that remain intact. I say that to say that tuning into my inner voice and getting aligned with who I say I am at this moment is vital to me actually being authentic and living authentically leaning into what Raf shared. How do each of you describe your authentic vibe? Meaning this is who I am wherever I go. And in any setting,

Delicia Tan [00:05:33] I'm happy to jump in on that one. And you know, quite interestingly, I do find that I'm a lot more of my authentic self in the workplace because I am my own person. I don't have the responsibilities of being daughter or wife or cat mom. And in that sense, I find that working with people who have an open mindset and working within the workplace or working towards a common goal and sharing our challenges as well as our triumphs, enables me to really live up to my full potential. My team knows my FY22 or my financial plan was a Taylor Swift themed presentation, so again, I'm pleased to see that I'm able to live plans authentic self in the workplace.

Jermaine Dallas [00:06:17] I think for for me, I think I have to make a conscious effort sometimes because I think when you are joining a big company, you want to fit in. And it's really easy to think that in order for me to fit in, I have to be like everyone else and do the same things and think the same things. But a lot of the time, that's not really what you are hired for. So for me, authenticity is bringing that your full self and and really bringing what makes you unique to work. So sometimes it's an effort. I have to really make myself do that because it's not always straightforward, but when when I do nail it, when I when I do feel really comfortable, I think that's where I'm able to be myself and be my best self at work.

Rafael Franco [00:07:21] Yeah, totally. When I, when I was a child or a teenager, I was. It was not really easy to be my true self, to be authentic. When I find out that I might be gay, I had a prejudice mind myself. So I thought it was wrong to be effeminate, for example, and I tried to conceal any glimpse of movement that could be seen as feminine. And this has made some permanent marks in myself that I still carry with me. And so when I entered the workplace, I could. It was the first place where I could be myself, because in communications, usually you are more accepted. So I felt more vulnerable to show more parts of myself. And but now I'm in the moment when at work and I can be truly authentic. I'm my whole self. And but as I focus so much at work during the last two years. And I think that is one of the reasons that I was concealing myself. I open at work, so I felt comfortable at work. So I focused most part of my life to my work. And then now I'm in another journey to find my true self, my authentic self, on my personal life as well. And when you face prejudice is against sexuality, ethnicity or any of any other thing, I think is hard to to find your authenticity as a whole and our, as you said, any our authenticity changes over time as well because you're not the same today as you are like 20 years ago. So it changes and prejudice certainly have a great impact in that.

Dani Jackson Smith [00:09:15] Absolutely. Prejudice, discrimination and all the isms, racism, sexism, ageism, Abel ism, they all impact what it takes for us to show up authentically. We live in this world where these things exist and persist, so we must acknowledge that being authentic in spite of our surroundings or societal pressures really take something. Back in 2010, I got my first full time job as an associate producer. I recall a more senior black producer pulling me aside and encouraging me, but also sort of warning me not to become the black producer known for predominantly pitching black directors. This conversation disgusted me because I was certain my white colleagues were not getting schooled or how many white companies or directors to pitch. I'm born in Chicago, South Side and West Side, lived in New York, had been in the music industry, entertainment industry and had an array of contacts. So I felt like I was ultimately being asked to leave a part of who I was at the door in order to fit in. I'm sure this person meant well, but they had a case of respectability politics that would have me be more concerned with fitting in than pitching the diverse gamut of talent that I knew would be best for creative and for our clients. Luckily, I didn't listen. I pitched all sorts of people and, you know, I owe that to my upbringing. So shout out to my parents and my grandparents, but also to the tribe I had cultivated and created in Chicago and in New York through the 4A's multicultural internship program and through ADCOLOR. You know, when we come in as a community or when we know we have a community, we also feel more empowered to be our authentic sel