Gravity Podcast

Most of us assume that all shame is toxic shame (feeling bad for the person I am). But can shame be "good"? In this episode we continue a conversation we started a few episodes ago in our Christmas episode, where we wondered about the way Jesus seems to leverage shame to seek repentance and restitution from oppressors. We received some excellent reflections from Naomi, a member of the Gravity Community, and we wanted to address some of what she said.

Show notes:

Here are Naomi's comments in full:

"Hey all - I’m just in the middle of the Christmas episode and the shame chat. I’ve done so much thinking about shame in the past 18mths or so. I also agree there is a form of shame that is healthy, which is different to guilt. I think guilt is linked to rules - I did something wrong that broke a societal rule. You can feel guilt outside of a relational context, because it is about our social rules. But shame is about broken relationships. Toxic shame says, “I am a bad person and am worthy of being expelled from the group, if people saw the true me they would reject me.” Healthy shame is about recognising that my actions can break relationships and hurt people, and therefore (hopefully) keeps me from doing those things. Part of our problem, I think, is that we haven’t learnt how to repair damage we do to others, so we fear our shame will lead to permanently broken relationships. My understanding is that in honour shame cultures this is more codified, so there are clear ways to restore honour if relationships are damaged. Thoughts?

"Eg. I feel guilty that I ate an extra cookie. I broke a perceived rule, but no one else is hurt. I may also feel some (toxic) shame about my weight because I believe it makes me somehow unacceptable and an object of judgement from others. I feel a combo of (healthy) shame and guilt when I yell at my kids, because it both breaks one of my parenting rules but I also see that as an abuse of my power and damaging to our relationship, but I know how to repair it. If I didn’t (yet) understand that, a friend may need to help me recognise my actions as “shameful”, hopefully without exiling me from the community. But if it was severe and I was unrepentant, then that may be necessary for the safety of others.

"Also, if my yelling at my kids is unchecked, they are likely to internalise toxic shame. I think often our toxic shame comes from someone else being shameless, and the shame therefore ends up on the wrong person (ie on the one with less power). Because it wasn’t theirs in the first place, there is no way back for them, other than putting the shame back to me, it’s rightful 'owner'."

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We started Gravity in 2015, and up until recently the official name of the organization was Gravity Leadership. But we recently changed our name to Gravity Commons. Why?

Show notes:

• Read the article online: Why We Changed Our Name to Gravity Commons
• Join the Gravity Community.

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In her book Eve Isn't Evil: Feminist Readings of the Bible to Upend Our Assumptions, the Rev. Dr. Julie Faith Parker reads biblical texts through a feminist lens, discussing how vital our readings of the Bible can be as a source of strength, guidance, and joyful defiance.

Julie Faith Parker lives in NYC where she is a visiting scholar at Union Theological Seminary and biblical scholar in residence at Marble Collegiate Church. She has taught biblical studies at General Theological Seminary, Trinity Lutheran Seminary, and also at NY Theological Seminary, where her students were incarcerated in Sing Sing Prison.

Show notes:

Here's the article we mentioned in the introduction (Chris Green, prompted by a conversation between Bono and Franklin Graham, posts a conversation between Rowan Williams and Philip Pullman on what makes art art and what makes art Christian:

You Can't Actually Show the Resurrection

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We talk with pastor and professor Cheryl Bridges Johns about why our reading of the Bible needs to be "re-enchanted" for us to encounter it as God's Word. She is the author of Re-Enchanting the Text: Discovering the Bible as Sacred, Dangerous, and Mysterious.

Cheryl Bridges Johns is a pastor and theologian who has taught collee and seminary students for over 40 years. She is visiting professor and director of the Pentecostal House of Studies at United Theological Seminary and previously taught at Pentecostal Theological Seminary and is past president of the Society for Pentecostal Studies.

You can connect with her and her work on her bio page.

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Christy, Matt, and Ben spend some time reflecting on the past year: what they're learning and hoping for in the new year (and opening Christmas presents!).

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As part of our series on how to understand and read the Bible, we talk with New Testament scholar Robyn Whitaker about why and how to read the Bible on its own terms (instead of trying to make it into something it's not).

Robyn Whitaker is Associate Professor of New Testament Studies at Pilgrim Theological College and the University of Divinity in Melbourne Australia.

She co-hosts the By the Well podcast, and is the author of the book we talked with her about, Even the Devil Quotes Scripture: Reading the Bible on Its Own Terms.

You can connect with Robyn and her work on her website.

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We talk with Rev. Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre about his book Reading the Bible From the Margins and how learning to read from the perspective of the poor, oppressed, and marginalized can enrich our perspective on what Scripture means and does.

Rev. Dr. Miguel A. De La Torre, Professor of Social Ethics and Latinx Studies at theIliff School of Theologyin Denver, Colorado.He has served as the elected 2012 President of theSociety of Christian Ethicsand served as the Executive Officer for theSociety of Race, Ethnicity and Religion(2012-17). Dr. De La Torre is a recognized international Fulbright scholar who has taught courses and lectured around the world.In 2020, the American Academy of Religion bestowed on him theExcellence in Teaching Award. The following year, 2021, the American Academy also conferred upon him theMartin E. Marty Public Understanding of Religion Award. De La Torre is the first scholar to receive the two most prestigious awards presented by his guild and the first Latinx to receive either one of them.

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We talk with New Testament scholar Scot McKnight about his new translation of the New Testament, entitled The Second Testament: A New Translation, and why encountering the strangeness of the Bible can help us to read it anew.

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What if the imperfections and contradictions in Scripture aren't an accident? What if they were allowed to be there by the Holy Spirit in order to draw us beyond the literal words on the page and deeper into the spiritual truth God is trying to teach us? As provocative or unorthodox as that might sound, it is in fact a very ancient way of understanding what it means for the Bible to be divinely inspired.

We talk with Zack Hunt about these topics, which he covers in his book Godbreathed: What It Really Means For the Bible To Be Inspired.

Zack Hunt graduated from Trevecca Nazarene University with an undergraduate double major in Religion and History. He also holds a graduate degree in Theology as well as an additional graduate degree in Christian History from Yale Divinity School. He's appeared in Rolling Stone, The Boston Globe, Huff Post, and wrote a book narrating his faith deconstruction vis a vis the book of Revelation entitled Unraptured. He's interested in the intersection of faith and politics, and smoking BBQ.

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In response to our conversation with Chris Green, we've received a couple questions asking for examples of how this "new/old" way of interpreting the Scriptures works. So we used a recent sermon from Matt on 2 Samuel 21:1-14 (David avenging the Gibeonites) as an example and talked about the implications.

Here's a link to Matt's original sermon, if you'd like to listen:

Rizpah, David, And The Good Work Of Shame To Oppose Injustice

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