Let‘s Talk Fleet Risk

For this episode, I’m handing the reins over to my colleague, Anne-Marie Penny of National Highways and the Driving for Better Business Programme Manager. She’s talking to Louise Clarkson, who is Operational Assurance and Capability Business Services Team Leader for National Highways’ Customer Services Division.

Louise founded the Menopause and Hormonal Conditions Network for National Highways. This was a fascinating discussion covering how menopause can impact a woman’s ability to drive for work, the impact on a menopausal woman’s partner who may also drive for work, the need for a corporate menopause policy, sharing corporate best practice across different sectors, and finally, Louise’s award for the valuable work that she’s done to support others.

Simon: Hello everyone and welcome to Let’s Talk Fleet Risk. My guest today is James Tillyer, Managing Consultant at Transformotion, based in Ireland, who are specialists in immersive driver training.

Welcome to the podcast James.

James: Thanks Simon, it’s lovely to be here.

Simon: James – perhaps you could start by introducing yourself, and explaining a little bit about who you are and what Transformotion does?

James: Sure. Well, I’ve been involved in road transport for over 20 years now, and a lot of my time has been spent working on driver development – in terms of careers, training, and engagement.

For Transformotion, it’s a road transport consultancy and training developer. We work on projects that focus on things like vehicle autonomy, and what it means for the labour market, as well as driver training. In fact, our latest project is called Gaming DRV, championing the cause for distance learning in formal driver training. We’re also developing prototypes for games and gamification in general, particularly where driver CPC is concerned.

In addition to that, we also develop products for fleet managers, to help them manage vehicles and drivers. It’s a fairly unique service – or I like to think it is – where we build our bespoke toolbox talks, audits, that sort of thing. And that’s offered through a website called EasyFleetr.com.

And then finally, we develop immersive driver training. We use eye-tracking technology – which is a bit of a first in our sector. We use 360-degree video and drone footage to create really engaging visuals, which is all wrapped up into a classroom-based training course. And drivers get to use an interactive app where they improve their knowledge and attention, and it also reduces a lot of the tedious admin tasks because we’ve wrapped up things like feedback forms and ID checks within the app.

So, we do a fair bit, and we’ve wrapped that up into three sections.

Simon: Brilliant. This conversation came about because of a chat that you and I had a couple of months ago around driver wellbeing. At Driving for Better Business, we’ve been looking around a range of issues throughout the quarter that fall under the broad heading of ‘fitness to drive’. So, I was wondering what that term means to you?

James: I remember our conversation very well. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with that – because it is a very broad term. And it’s sometimes quite difficult to pin down, but for me, it’s about being mentally ready to control a vehicle. A lot of the time, if we’ve got cramp, or a headache, or a cold, it’s quite clear. But it’s more difficult to know if we’re suffering from mental fatigue.

Simon: We know there are rules about how much time you can spend driving in any given day because the concentration required can take its toll over time. This issue of mental fatigue, it’s assuming your head is in the game to start with, isn’t it? If the driver’s got personal issues to deal with, what effect does that have?

James: It’s interesting because one thing we discovered with the immersive training is that through the eye-tracking tech, we can actually see how often a driver’s eye is looking in a certain direction. And the sheer volume of eye movements to point A to point B in a given journey is enormous – it’s huge. And a driver doesn’t realise it, because it’s an involuntary movement. But it goes some way to explain why a professional driver feels so exhausted at the end of the day. It’s not just the physical task of driving, it’s also what their brain is doing, and actually where they’re looking.

But in terms of personal issues, it’s very difficult for anyone to avoid thinking about the general rigours of life – I think we all appreciate that. But the result is almost always emotive. Things like anger, resentment, worry – they all come to the fore.

And in terms of what that means for driving – well that tends to lead to things like erratic driving, risk taking, distraction, speeding. All the negative stuff. And obviously those are really detrimental to the safety of the driver and other road users.

Simon: Just give us some examples of what those issues can be. What sort of issues are we talking about that drivers can bring into the cab with them?

James: It’s the ones you might expect. So generally speaking, health issues, money worries, relationships. But more than that, it can be the hum drum. Things like daydreaming about the latest box set, what’s for tea, or the next holiday – things like that. All of those factors create a distraction or brain fog that’s detrimental to driving.

We very often get into a car or van or truck or bus and we just drive – it’s very much an automated thing. We just switch to driver mode – and it’s fair to say that some do. But it’s not a natural given ability. An argument, for example, that happens at home tends to linger once you’re out and about. The issue can fester, and grow in your mind, and take over the rational part of your brain. When that happens, it’s an alarm – it’s a bit of an issue that can’t be reversed. Alternatively, as I said, worrying can cause the brain to become fogged. Which again, leads to late braking or poor judgment.

There are so many different factors, in terms of mental awareness, that have an impact on your driving.

Simon: You mentioned the eye tracker. Did you notice any trends with those eye movements that possibly – I don’t know whether you discussed the results with the drivers afterwards and were able to match up certain levels of distraction, or types of distraction, with the behaviour they were exhibiting and the eye movements. Were there any lessons you took out of that?

James: It’s very interesting because when you do the study on eye tracking and break down the eye movements, you have the benefit of being able to see – through heat maps and single points on a video – where exactly they’ve been looking and how often.

What we don’t really know is why. So, what we’ve done in the past is approach the driver and say “look, we’ve discovered that you’ve been doing this, do you know why it is?”. And more often than not, they don’t know. I’ll give you an example – we had a situation where we filmed a driver joining a motorway. As he was joining the motorway, he looked twice as much to his nearside than his offside. You’d think that doesn’t really make sense, because as you’re joining a motorway, you’d naturally look in your offside – looking for traffic and traffic flow, and where the gap is.

He said, “I don’t really know why I did that”, and we pinned it down to him being so focused on looking at the nearside because of left turns. This was an HGV, he very often drives in London, and his brain has almost tuned in to naturally look at the nearside as a way of protecting cyclists when they’re making left-hand turns. So, what we’ve discovered, is that naturally over time, the brain has been trained, but the awareness just isn’t there – because it becomes an automated response. That was quite interesting.

Simon: I can understand why that would be an automated response – he’s a professional driver and he’s doing it day-in, day-out. But of course, it’s important to remember that we’re not just talking about those drivers who spend all, or most, of the day on the road. There’s many of us – me included – who go out for occasional meetings too.

Presumably, those sorts of drivers are prone to the same sort of distractions – relationships at work that could affect you in the same way as relationships at home, worries about work or deadlines, in the same way as you might worry about health or money at home. Would that be true?

James: Absolutely. I think as an example, if you take a hands-free call, we all know that’s a well-known distraction. But how many of us actually think about the effect of the call, once that call has ended? The conversation may have been heated, for example – something you disagreed with. In which case, when you end that call, your emotions possibly take over your rational driving style. As a result of that discussion, your ability to drive may decrease – which means you increase the risk.

Something that I’ve researched before is called cognitive tunnelling – it sounds very scientific, and it certainly is, but the fundamentals of it are quite straightforward. Why cognitive tunnelling is important is that it often flies under the radar, but it’s the main cause of accidents involving human error. In a nutshell, it’s where the brain focuses on a single task or an issue, and neglects the other factors.

As an example: a driver is travelling on an unfamiliar road – which is often the case. They’re looking for an entrance. They’re so fixated with finding that entrance that things like a cyclist, or a tight bend, or warning alarms, become barely noticed or registered. Of course, what that does, is it means that through cognitive tunnelling, they’ve created risk for all other factors on the road. That’s one to really pin down, because there are so many risks involved there.

Simon: You raised an interesting point about finishing a call, and that still affecting your emotional state. A very good friend at the Driving for Better Business programme is Professor Gemma Briggs, a professor at the Open University who is one of the UK’s foremost experts on mobile phone distraction from driving. I had a discussion with her the other day, and she said your brain can take up to five minutes to disengage from that call because you’re still thinking about the content of that call, mulling over certain things – you’re not back in the game.

It's not a case that you end the call and you’re back concentrating on driving – your head is still out of the game for another five minutes after that.

James: I’m not surprised that that research has

Welcome to Let's Talk Fleet Risk, a podcast for those who manage drivers and vehicles, and want to reduce road risk in their organisation. In this episode, I'm talking to Kate Walker, Managing Director of the Diabetes Safety Organisation.

We'll be discussing:

• Why Driver Safety Managers need to understand the hidden epidemic that is diabetes.
• When is diabetes a DVLA notifiable condition?
• The potential consequences of a typical on-the-road diet, enabling conversations with employees around driving with diabetes.
• Good practice for managing diabetes risk, and some resources to help.

Hello everyone and welcome to this edition of Let's Talk Fleet Risk. This quarter we're looking at various aspects of fitness to drive, and my guest today is Kate Walker, who is Managing Director of the Diabetes Safety Organisation.

Welcome to the podcast Kate.

Kate: Thanks for having me today, Simon.

Simon: Kate your website says that diabetes is a hidden epidemic leaving all companies exposed to increased absenteeism, increased risk of accidents, and therefore increased risk of company liability, so, why is that? And why does somebody who manages the safety of people who drive for work need to listen to this podcast?

Kate: I think it’s really important to address this epidemic of diabetes. I think it's hidden in several ways, so I don't think people necessarily living with it understand the complexity of it. And also, I think it's hidden in the workplace.

There's actually one in 12 in the working population living with diabetes and we've just hit 5 million people in the UK. And we can touch on some of the stats in a minute but in terms of your question around why, why is this important for a manager… I think we need to understand that diabetes is a known foreseeable risk in the workplace. And there is legislation that needs to be followed, which again, is often not understood – people think diabetes and they think medical, GPs. And I think there’s a lot of work that needs to be done around bringing this to light and removing the stigma, and also understanding the implications in the workplace.

We know that there are 5 million people with the condition. A further 12.6 million in the UK have pre-diabetes. So, these numbers are significant. And if people are unmanaged, time off of work increases, there is an increased risk of accidents from those who are undiagnosed, or those who are not necessarily managing it as well – we know it’s not always easy to get GP appointments, or the time and support that may be needed for people living with diabetes. And there's also the experience we have when we're going to companies – it's hard for people to come forward and share, because of the unknown. Are they going to lose their job? Is their job still safe? What are the requirements? You know, it’s either let's not get diagnosed and we never have to address it, or let's hide away from it – and that poses a risk in so many different ways. As an employer as well – and I think for any safety managers –there's a real need to understand the difference between the two types of diabetes, which we’ll come on to.

The right conversation needs to be had, also to understand that the Health and Safety at Work Act does come in here, and people, need to make sure they are managing this risk. People living with diabetes have to also comply with DVLA regulations, and they fit under the Equality Act because, more often than not, diabetes would be a disability. So, for all of those reasons, I think we really need to start a conversation around diabetes across the industry to make our roads safer and to help anyone who is living with it to feel safe to come forward, and really be able to share and understand that it's okay and safe to do so.

Simon: Before we started this discussion, I went on the DVLA's website just to see what they had to say about diabetes and notifiable conditions. And it said that if you have diabetes and you manage it with diet, it's not notifiable. But if you do need insulin, it is notifiable.

So am I right in thinking that if you're treating with insulin, it's type one, if you're treating with diet, it's type two. And if so, what's the difference? And I guess, how do you come to have diabetes?

Kate: So no, it's not only type one on insulin. And again, this question alone, I think really raises a good question of how can we have the right conversation in the workplace if we don't understand diabetes and the two variations here?

So, type one people living with diabetes often are frustrated. So, type one diabetes is an autoimmune disease – at some point, their body had a reaction and now their pancreas, which produces insulin, no longer works. And of the 5 million, only 4% - about 400,000 – are living with type one diabetes. Predominantly everybody else is living with type two. In my experience, when we work with people with type one diabetes, they find it frustrating that they are bundled into the same category, and they’re not understood. You’ll often see them now with sensors on their arms, and they have to manage their diabetes throughout the day – so any time they eat, they have to put the right insulin in. They’re effectively self-regulating their own blood sugar levels, which we – myself, as someone not living with diabetes – take for granted; my blood sugars are managed for me. They’re having to deal with it – it’s effectively like another job. Even temperature can cause insulin to do something. As a condition, it’s a lot of work for someone living with it.

On the other side, we've got people living with type 2 – so that's 95 % of the 5 million – and 600 ,000 people with type 2 diabetes are also on insulin. Now, the condition is different. So, for type 2 diabetes, it's often progressive. The easiest analogy – if we use vehicles – is if I was driving down to London from Birmingham in first gear, we wouldn’t be surprised if my car engine was smoking. I hadn’t changed gears. If I turn around, come back, change gears, hopefully I’m in no further trouble. If I keep driving at first, at some point the engine will smoke and it will breakdown.

The pancreas, from the perspective of living with type two diabetes is very similar. So, if we look after our body, it will work effectively. Over time, if we keep driving in first or pushing too much in – and that could be stress, it could be other medical conditions, it could be the choices of foods, lifestyle… there's many factors that contribute to type two. But if it all pushes on that organ too often, at some point we get the smoke, the warning signs of diabetes, pre-diabetes. And if we ignore that, it turns into type two diabetes.

Sadly, it’s a progressive disease – caught early it can be managed on food and lifestyle choices. But left, or not well-managed, it can need medication from different strengths of tablets – some of them strong, and reportable to the DVLA – right up to insulin. So, people living with type two diabetes who are on insulin, they don’t become type one – they are type two on insulin. As I said, there are 600,000 in the UK.

So, when we look at insulin, often people with type one diabetes have had it since they were young, and they get a lot of support. Often people with type two diabetes on insulin are not as well educated because there’s not as much support for them. So, I think it’s another place, in the workplace, to help educate and support people living with both types of diabetes on insulin. And under DVLA regulations, they have to test every 2 hours whilst driving on insulin to ensure the blood levels are correct – safely – for the prevention of any accidents happening due to their blood sugar levels dropping too quickly and having a hype.

So, if we can have managers and people inside companies understanding the difference, understanding the requirements of people, and the differences that they're living with, it really allows it to become safer – and there are no blanket bans in the UK. So again, anyone can drive as long as their blood sugars are well managed and they're looking after themselves.

Simon: Well, what would be typical symptoms of someone who is pre-diabetic?

Kate: Classic symptoms of pre-diabetes is over-thirsty. Changing sexual excitement. Going to the toilet regularly. Getting too hot. The difficulty – which is why we say that it’s hidden – is they’re very subtle symptoms. Over-fatigued, can feel more stressed than normal… they’re all symptoms we could put down to a busy day, or work, or drinking too much. Diabetes UK have a Know Your Risk Score – you can do some questions and check it out and I absolutely recommend it. The sooner we catch the pre-diabetes, or the edge of diabetes, it’s reversable for many – not all – and actually, it prevents the complications and the damage that occurs, which are really the major problems that come with diabetes down the line. So, there are some good solutions to it but caught early it can make a massive difference.

Simon: You said previously that diet was one of the possible contributory factors, and a lot of the drivers that are managed by the audience on the call today… a lot of those drivers are on the road all day and they rely on cafes petrol stations, motorway service stations, etcetera for their daily nutrition, which obviously isn't great. What are the likely consequences of that?

Kate: Yeah, I think this is an industry that is faced with some additional challenges. We've got to look at what impacts diabetes. Stress does, as we've said, nutrition does, movement does. So, can we move a little bit more? Well, that's let’s have a little walk around whilst we're in those cafes and petrol stations just a little bit longer.

The food choices are interesting. We all know what it's like to stop at a cafe, but are th

Welcome to Let’s Talk Fleet Risk – a podcast for those who manage drivers and vehicles and want to reduce road risk in their organization.

In this episode I’m talking to Nick Reed, Founder of Reed Mobility and Chief Road Safety Adviser to National Highways about the active vehicle safety technologies known as Advanced Driver Assistance Systems. We’ll be discussing:

• How the latest driver assistance technology is keeping drivers safer
• Why fleet managers need to pay attention to vehicle safety ratings
• How telematics systems fit in to the vehicle safety technology suite
• Whether drivers could struggle with any of this technology
• The issue of maintaining driver concentration when these systems are doing some of the driving
• And finally, a quick look at where we are now with fully self-driving vehicles.

This is the second instalment of our 2-part podcast for Tyre Safety Month, where I chat to Stuart Lovatt, Chair of the road safety charity, TyreSafe.

In the previous episode we looked at: · The number of tyre-related incidents and their consequences. · The results of this year’s survey looking at the legality of tyres at the point of replacement · The specific tyre safety issues businesses need to look at for each vehicle type including trucks and vans.

In this episode we continue that, looking at company cars and grey fleet, including the emerging concern regarding tyre safety on electric vehicles, and the safety implications of grey fleet drivers opting for part-worn second-hand replacement tyres to save money. We also discuss the key messages and resources that are part of this October’s Tyre Safety Month campaign.

Show notes: Stuart Lovatt, Chair of Tyresafe

Welcome to let’s talk fleet risk – a podcast for those who manage drivers andvehicles and want to reduce road risk in their organisation. I’m Simon Turner, Campaign Manager for Driving for Better Business, and in this episode I’m talking to Stuart Lovatt, Chair of the road safety charity, TyreSafe. In a wide-ranging chat, we discussed:

The number of tyre-related incidents and their consequences. The results of this year’s survey looking at the legality of tyres at the point of replacement The specific tyre safety issues businesses need to look for each vehicle type including trucks, vans, company cars and grey fleets. We talk about specific emerging issues around tyre safety for electric vehicles. The impact of poor tyre-management on the bottom line This year’s Tyre Safety Month campaign and free resources you can share with your drivers.

Fleet safety culture.

Welcome to Let's Talk Fleet Risk – a podcast for those who manage drivers and vehicles and want to reduce road risk in their organisation. In this episode, I'm talking to Alison Moriarty about leadership and road risk management.

We’ll be discussing the difference between leading and managing; how to get buy in from senior leaders; the impact leadership has on safety culture; the importance of managing reputational risk; and how all of this can impact the organisation’s financial performance.

Geraint Davies is the new concession director for FORS, the UK's leading fleet accreditation scheme. Established 15 years ago, FORS now boasts almost 5000 accredited operators who, together, operate over 90,000 vehicles. FORS are Driving for Better Business partners and this month's podcast offers insight into Geraint's breadth of experience across many areas of driver and vehicle management, and how accreditation can support fleet operators.

Simon: Hello and welcome to this edition of Let's Talk Fleet Risk, a podcast for those who manage drivers and their vehicles and want to reduce road risk in their organisation.

Welcome to Let's Talk Fleet Risk. My guest for this episode of the podcast is Geraint Davis, who is the new concession director for FORS, the UK's leading fleet accreditation scheme. Established 15 years ago, it now boasts almost 5000 accredited operators who, together, operate over 90,000 vehicles.

Welcome to the podcast Geraint. So perhaps you could start by just telling us a little bit about what your role involves and what you're looking to achieve with FORS?

Geraint: It’s great to have the opportunity to join you today. Driving for Better Business is an initiative we at FORS fully support, and in my role as Concession Director I’m really looking forward to strengthening our ties with you. So, what does my role involve? Well, I will be leading the FORS team through the day to day of running the scheme, helping to develop a standard, and liaising with key stakeholders via the trade associations Logistics UK, RHA, and others; local authorities, politicians or the enforcement bodies. The DVSA, the Office of the Traffic Commissioner and such like along the way. I'm personally very passionate about FORS and the difference it brings for specifiers, our operators and as well the wider community.

So really, I'm looking forward to developing FORS as a leading quality assurance scheme, improving the value for our accredited operators and specifiers and also growing into new sectors where we can. In my previous roles at the coalface of the road freight sector. I have taken a business through FORS accreditation, I've worked through audits – I’ve been a FORS auditor and personally delivered FORS training. I know the benefits FORS can bring to an organisation when it comes to improving safety and efficiency, and essentially – and crucially – winning more business.

Simon: That’s a really broad role, and you alluded to some of the experience you've got over the last few years which we’ll come onto as we go through the podcast, because some of those I think are really interesting and relevant.

So, you've only been with FORS for a few weeks. You mentioned about your previous role as a FORS accredited operator – so you were Chief Operating Officer for John Raymond Transport, and while you were there you led the risk management strategy for over 22 years, wasn't it? So, I just wanted to sort of ask you what were the biggest challenges you faced when you when you started managing driver and fleet risk?

Geraint: Where do you start? John Raymond Transport has over 100 trucks and 200 trailers and multiple depots - over 150 employees. As COO my key responsibility is to make it work every day while delivering value for our customers and profitability.

While doing all this we also had to make sure we were operating to the highest standards of roadworthiness and complaints across all aspects of transport, business, and of course employment legislation – that's nothing new. These are challenges that every fleet operator faces every day, and you need systems and processes in place to give you and your team the confidence that it is a well-run business. That's easier said than done of course, and to be successful requires teamwork, and everybody pulling in the same direction with a set of common goals; one vision, if you will.

Communication is key, it’s the most important thing in my leadership toolbox. I've always been good at talking – that's what everybody says! And it’s developing the right framework and support, and also training. At John Raymond Transport, I delivered the driver CPC training myself. There won’t be many COO’s that do that, but it kept me close to the business, and gave me direct communication channels to the drivers – that pays dividends when you try to develop a winning culture in an organisation and take everybody on the journey with you.

Simon: Yes, it certainly does. 22 years you were there – that’s a very long time to be managing risk for one operator, so I was wondering what changes you saw over that time – in how you manage risk, and how the challenges evolved.

Geraint: Well, one of the most exciting things about the fleet sector is the constant state of change – be it technical improvements, legislation, or external impacts. During my time at John Raymond Transport, I worked through the stock market crash, the banking crisis, the credit crunch, and of course the pandemic – and now the cost of living crisis, and everything that that brings. All of these things brought about a massive change to the sector.

On a technical front, vehicle development has been dramatic. When I first started out, we had paper tachograph discs. I remember driving a Seddon Atkinson 401, and now we've got the Volvo I-Shift shift, and automated manual gearboxes, all sorts of things. Improving safety for vulnerable road users – that's been huge. We’ve seen big improvements in greenhouse gas emissions from vehicles. And we witnessed digitisation in the sector – whether it be digital tachographs, telematics, tracking. There’s a tremendous number of things available to operators, which at best were patchy when I first joined industry.

Data is the new oil. It needs to be refined in order to be used and be useful. The underlying lesson is you need to be flexible and adaptable to survive. As an operator in the sector, you need the tools and support to help you navigate your way through these changes. This is one of the key reasons why I recommended the FORS accreditation at John Raymond Transport 15 years ago. FORS has been right beside me, and we've evolved as a business, and as the industry has changed so has FORS. When I look forward to at the changes still to come, the biggest impact will come from decarbonisation of commercial vehicles. It’s on the horizon now. This is going to transform how fleets operate and I'm excited about how the next developments in batteries, electric or hydrogen vehicles, or alternative fuels, and how we’re going to adapt and bring them into fleets.

Simon: So, you mentioned that you brought FORS into John Raymond Transport 15 years ago. Now, we’re looking currently at leadership and business benefits as part of our campaign messaging. And presumably the FORS framework helped improve the way you were managing, and that's what led to some of the business benefits you saw. We recently published a case study that you helped us put together for John Raymond Transport which showed up reduction in incidents of over 23% year on year. But not only that – it showed a reduction in driver penalties by about 1/3, as well as improvements in fuel use and CO2 emissions. That's clearly very important to you as it demonstrates the value of the work that you've done – but I was wondering how those kinds of results were valued by the rest of the board. Did you have the support from the rest of the management team to do what you needed to do, and did they value what came out of it?

Geraint: Absolutely – from the board and the wider group. For an organisation to be successful you’ve got to get everybody on board, from the boardroom to the drivers rest area, and of course the technicians and everybody involved in the business. Vehicle safety and compliance can’t sit in a back corner outside the main performance indicators of the business, and I was always very appreciative that John’ Raymond Transport recognised that.

Ensuring you have a well-run business is obviously crucial to the financial performance of the organisation, which is a key consideration for the board. Improvements you mentioned around reduction in incidents and driver penalties are also important indicators for the underlying health of the business. And of course, they make a direct correlation with the bottom line.

Simon: You recently left John Raymond Transport and you've now taken up the role of Concession Director, which is a role with Sopra Steria, who now run the FORS programme. Sopra Steria only took over FORS at the beginning of last year, 2022, so perhaps tell us a little bit about what's happened with FORS since Sopra Steria took over, and how your role is going to fit into that. What are your objectives and aspirations for the FORS programme going forward?

Geraint: Well, it's a really great honour for me to take up this role. I know how important FORS can be for a business, as I’ve seen it from the other side, of course. Sopra Steria took over the administration of the scheme in January last year and it's been an exciting year of transition – keeping the service firing on all cylinders, while putting up the building blocks in place for future growth and development. We've trained over 4600 managers, seen over 130,000 e-learning courses taken, and we’ve funded over 1600 driver training courses, and delivered 265 practitioner courses - I think those are some great numbers and it's definitely something to build on.

And just a word on FORS practitioners – I’m one of them – they're a very important part of the FORS family. These people have a deep knowledge and understanding of the benefits of FORS, at a level equivalent to a master’s graduate. We’ll be looking to work even closer with our practitioners in future, and that's a key goal of mine.

Simon: Your past experience that we spoke about earlier -

Simon: Hi everyone and welcome to Let’s Talk Fleet Risk. My guest for this episode of the podcast is Gareth Jones who is Group Fleet Compliance Manager at Speedy Asset Services.

Speedy Asset Services is the most recent good management case study that we’ve published on the Driving for Better Business website and I’m going to talk to Gareth about some of that in more detail.

Welcome to the Podcast Gareth.

Simon: Gareth – you’ve been with Speedy a long time so could you start with a summary of how you came to be involved in driver safety and fleet compliance, and what your role entails at Speedy?

Gareth: Thank you Simon. My journey into transport and fleet and driver training started many moons ago when I was employed with HM Armed Forces. From there, I spent a lot of time at DHL International in the driver training department. I first came to Speedy in 2007, as the Driver Trainer, and stayed there for just short of 7 years – covering all aspects of driver training, driver behaviour training, CPC which had just come in, accident management training, and various other training courses.

I then left the business for just over 18 months, and then came back to the business as the Group Fleet Compliance Manager, where my role then involved the HGV and van compliance, road risk management, and also duties around driver behaviours, and also dangerous goods safety advisor.

Simon: So, it’s obviously a very complex role - you’re running over 1,000 vehicles at Speedy but they’re not all just simple vans. You’ve got a lot of specialist vehicles, and open back vehicles where safe loading is critical. What are the key safety and compliance challenges you face in your day to day operations?

Gareth: The key challenges are that we must make sure that everybody who uses the road is always safe – that includes our drivers, but also all of the vulnerable road users at the same time. We all have a duty of care to make sure that everybody is safe at all times. So we ensure that our drivers go through a load security training programme for various types of vehicles.

So, we have a load security training programme for our tanker drivers. Some people wouldn’t class that as a load, but it is a load – it’s liquid. We have a load security course called The Light Side, for our transit drivers, and we have a heavy load security course for our heavy side drivers. We also have a load security course for our powered access side of the division which is run through the International Powered Access Federation. And all of that is captured on our internal training portal, so people can log in and see the progress, which has expiry dates and completion dates etcetera.

Simon: Safe and secure loading I think is one of the main challenges on the roads for most fleets – a lot of vehicles that get stopped by the DVSA and enforcement authorities are overweight, and it’s often not managed, so it’s really good to see you’ve got so many procedures and training programmes in place to make sure you’ve got all of that covered.

Gareth: Safety is at the heart of everything Speedy do – we have a simple rule: “fit one extra strap, just in case”.

Simon: Wise words. So, if we look at how you manage driver behaviour first, your case study shows a 13% reduction in collisions in 2022 over 2021 and a 90% recovery of uninsured loss. What have been the key factors in those achievements? What have you been doing?

Gareth: I think what you must first look at when you look at driver behaviour is that you need the data to understand where the driving behaviours and where you can have some wins. And with regard to wins, if you think about speeding – well if someone is speeding, what usually comes after that is a harsh braking event. So, if you look at the harsh braking and speeding events together as one event, you’ll get two actual subjects that you can cover off. And again, it’s simple things like speaking with the drivers, looking at the time of days these speeding events are happening, looking at the level of the speeding event, looking at the harsh braking event.

That’s not to say all harsh braking events are a bad thing – if someone has seen something like a ball or a child running out from the side of the road, and a harsh braking event happens, then that’s a good thing. It means they’ve seen it; they’ve observed it.

Talking to our drivers, and going through their driving behaviour… we send out monthly reports to our Chief Operating Officer, and that’s cascaded all the way down to the Depot Manager who then speaks to the drivers – and we manage that locally. With regard to our recovery from our uninsured losses, we have a fantastic Claims Manager who came into the business 4 or 5 years ago now, and we now actively manage our uninsured loss recovery – and she does it very well, to the point where she managed to get in excess of 5 figures back last year. I think it’s an area that sometimes some people forget to actually claim back.

Simon: It can make a huge difference to the bottom line and allow you to invest that in other areas.

So, we’re talking about speeding and harsh braking events, and all that data comes from systems like telematics and cameras. It’s clearly something that all vehicle operators should be looking at – I think with nearly all the really impressive case studies we share on our website, those improvements have been achieved with the help of that kind of technology but for operators who don’t use telematics and cameras, the impression is that there’ll be a lot of push back from drivers. How would you recommend fleet safety managers start that process of implementation?

Gareth: With telematics, we’ve had telematics in our vehicles since 2009 with relative very little pushback on the telematics as I remember back then. Like with any telematics data, it’s like a phone – it does go out of signal, and there are areas of the country where sometimes the telematics data does drop its signal, or you can get what’s called a Dual Speed Alert – so you could be driving on the A168 in North Yorkshire, or you could be driving on the A1. And if you’re driving on the A1, the speed limit is 70, but on the A168 it’s only 50. But because both roads run parallel you do sometimes get a discrepancy.

But unless businesses are willing to fit the telematics, you’re never truly going to understand driver behaviour to the point where you can better manage it. With regard to the cameras, we first installed cameras into our vehicles in early 2013 to be compliant with the new FORS & CLOCS regulations. Subsequently, we’ve now increased our cameras to having left, right, front, rear, load, and driver facing. We have then subsequently integrated our camera system company into our telematics system company, so that in the event of a harsh event, where the G-force has been triggered, it will automatically download the footage from 5 seconds before, during and after. That alert is then sent through to myself, the Fleet Director and the Claims Manager to view the footage.

Simon: You’ve got to be able to see the context around each of those events.

Gareth: Yeah, it gives us what we call our Golden Hour to deal with the third party if we’re deemed as liable, but also, we can better understand how the incident has taken place and interview the driver.

Simon: If we look at your vehicles now, I know you put a lot of investment into safety technology like cameras. Are you fitting other sort of other safety technology and why?

Gareth: Yeah, every day is a new day at Speedy and like I said earlier, safety is at the heart of everything we do, we’re always on the lookout for the next bit of technology. We’ve already decided to fit the new AI cameras, which supersede Sidescan. So these take away the need for Sidescan at the front of the vehicle, and so takes away the false alerts when it’s constantly buzzing off for rainwater, flies, cars, street furniture, rain, dust. The new AI cameras actually identify a hazard so that’s really good, we’ve fitted those.

We’ve recently installed a system called the FHOSS, the cycle safety system, where it illuminates an orange laser line down the left side of the vehicle, 1 metre away from the vehicle that’s only shown when the vehicle is turning left, on the indication. The more visibility you can give to cyclists and vulnerable road users of the vehicle’s intentions then it’s better for all road users. Like I said earlier, the safety of all road users is paramount to Speedy, not just ourselves.

Simon: I want to now get onto the key piece for me. We’re publishing this podcast and your case study as part of our current quarterly focus which is on leadership and business benefits. So I want to ask how engaged the board and the rest of your senior leadership team are when it comes to managing driver safety, and how supportive they are with any new initiatives you want to pursue.

Gareth: First and foremost, the Fleet Director Aaron Powell used to do my role, so the support from him comes naturally as he’s been where I’ve been. Our CEO, Dan Evans, has worked in various positions around the Speedy business, in sales, in the hire desk at the depot, he’s even been a drop driver at one point and I have great admiration for Dan that he supports everything that myself, Aaron and the fleet team do – and it’s his words that safety is at the heart of everything Speedy do.

Simon: I know you’re very proud of the fact that Speedy’s whole fleet has been accredited to FORS Gold for the 9 years now and that, you don’t just put drivers through the courses, you put managers through t

Simon: Welcome to this edition of Let’s Talk Fleet Risk – a podcast for those who manage drivers and their vehicles and want to reduce road risk in their organisation.

Hi everyone, and welcome to Let’s Talk Fleet Risk. My guest for this episode of the podcast is Peter Golding, who is the Founder and Managing Director of fleet management software specialists FleetCheck. Peter, welcome to the podcast.

Peter: Thank you Simon.

Simon: Now, a little-known fact is that FleetCheck was actually the first commercial organisation that partnered with Driving for Better Business. When I started as campaign manager way back in 2016, I wanted to create a useful online resource that would help engage our audience of Fleet Safety Managers. I’d already known Peter for a few years by then and the new FleetCheck had created an online Fleet Management questionnaire some years previously – but it wasn’t being heavily promoted, and needed updating.

Peter and I rewrote the questions, FleetCheck’s IT team did the programming for us and we relaunched it as the Driving for Better Business Gap Analysis, in partnership with FleetCheck. It’s now been through a couple of major updates since then, but our current Gap Analysis still has that original work at its core.

So, Peter, you’ve always put helping Fleet Managers in this type of way at the forefront of the FleetCheck ethos. So where does that come from?

Peter: Well, Simon, thank you – and I appreciate the opportunity of being on this podcast. For me, I suppose it sort of started with the 10 years at the beginning of my career working within the main dealer network, and experiencing the service sector. But really predominantly from the 15 years’ experience of running my own garages. During that time I’d come across hundreds and hundreds of businesses who we supported – it was obvious we were very essential to them maintaining their fleet. What I identified from that is there are literally tens of thousands of businesses out there who really are unaware of the challenges they have. In my industry, there are some very good software solutions out there – they were very much geared around the larger fleet operators.

At the heart of what we wanted to do with FleetCheck is be the voice of the SME. To build something really designed for the small to medium sized fleet operator. We focussed massively on the commercial vehicle fleet – so we look at the van and truck side, but especially the van side because it’s the area that is most often ignored. I wanted to create something that was intuitive and easy to use, and really help the sector that were ignored, in my opinion. And now I’m delighted to say we are the leading provider of support to the SME of fleet operators in the UK.

Simon: Yeah, and I can vouch for that because prior to DfBB I ran two small fleets; one with just a handful and then a second company which had about 10-12 cars. And this information just wasn’t available to me at the time. I wasn’t aware of the responsibilities. And it was very difficult to find that help and support. And what you’ve just been outlining would have been hugely helpful to me in both of those roles.

But another project we worked together on more recently – probably a couple of years ago now, when we originally launched it – is the Fleet Confidence Challenge, a free online course containing over 30 short videos in 3 modules. I think it takes just under a couple of hours to get through all of them.

The first module tells the story of a van driver involved in a serious accident with a car driver and a cyclist. And it goes on to examine where both the driver and the employer were at fault. And we use this scenario as the basis for a mock trial presentation that we did just last month – a mock trial prosecution of a company. Why did you want to create the challenge, and why did you ask us to get involved?

Peter: Well, I think one of the biggest issues is that the individuals that often operate fleets… some of them are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they have an interest in vehicles and they’ve been given the job of fleet or vehicles – management of the drivers – alongside their other roles. So what we have there is a challenge, where often the businesses that rely very much on these vehicles are being managed by somebody who hasn’t necessarily been given the formal training required or hasn’t got the time available to be able to properly and fully understand the implications.

What I wanted to do was created something intuitive and easy to engage with, and something relevant to the sector we were talking to. There’s been some fantastic work that’s been done previously, and I’ve seen information that can be associated with some very serious situations – the corporate manslaughter situations were, and still are, very prevalent – but it doesn’t apply necessarily to everyday events. And the challenge we wanted to create was something that every single business could easily experience.

Why with DfBB? Well, as you’ve already said Simon, I’m delighted with the work we’ve already done with you over so many years. And it seemed a really good fit working with you and creating something free-of-charge that was really a help to educate fleet operators – who, as I say, may not necessarily be trained. And maybe look at the sort of scenarios they might experience and identify perhaps the areas that they may not have initially thought about. So that was really at the heart of it – to provide an education tool that was free-of-charge and easily accessible to anyone who wanted it.

Simon: And it’s an interesting point, about the distinction between fatalities and injuries – obviously with the very big fleets in the country there is a statistical likelihood that they will have to deal with fatalities at some point, often more than one a year. But with the majority of companies with a small or medium-sized fleet, that’s possibly something they’ll never experience. The scenario we picked was about an injury collision with a cyclist, and we used that to our advantage with the mock trial, because there was a recent introduction of a new offence which is Causing Serious Injury by either Careless or Dangerous Driving, depending on the severity of the offence. And that makes it much more realistic to fleets, doesn’t it? Because according to government statistics, there’s about 40,000 a year of those.

Peter: Yeah, and I think that’s one of the important parts of it. When you look at the very small number of prosecutions for very, very serious accidents which escalate to the courts, if you look at serious injuries – I think, as you say, it’s in its thousands – but almost every business you talk to, even the smallest one, will have a driver running into the back of somebody at some stage, or reversing into a post, or maybe having a complaint from the general public. So we wanted to make it real, and as you say, I think the headline interests really were large corporate events and activities. But this is really designed to make it relevant to anyone, regardless of the size of the fleet they’re operating.

Simon: Obviously I’ve mentioned this mock trial presentation a couple of times now. It was at a 3-day Health and Safety Conference and we’ve got a video of that now available on the DfBB website, under the Events tab at the top – look for ‘Health and Safety Event 2023’ and you’ll find that there. But the purpose of that session, Peter, was to highlight the importance of accurate record keeping. So, why is that so important in your view?

Peter: What you have to be able to recognise is that you need to be able to demonstrate to the authorities that you are running a safe and legal fleet. So many of the businesses we talk to, and now almost a majority of those we support and help, are really reliant on spreadsheets, fragmented data that may be on whiteboards… a lot of what we try to do is to give companies that confidence that they can rely very much on remote access to data that’s a holistic view of what they’re trying to do, rather than looking at it in this fragmented way.

Often businesses we talk to have got leased vehicles with maintenance, and there’s a misconception within a lot of fleet operators that we talk to that because they lease these vehicles and maintenance is provided as part of the lease, that the leasing company themselves are responsible for record keeping. That they’re responsible for these vehicles being maintained correctly. And what we reinforce with them is that if something were to happen and they have a serious event with a vehicle that wasn’t properly maintained then it would be them in court, not the lease company. So, having records and having accurate information so that you can be confident you know what needs be done and when – you can only do that with a robust audit trail. And it should stand up. And if companies are investing in spreadsheets, and investment in time is where we’re looking at it, then you are massively exposed. Data could be deleted or easily corrected within that format.

Simon: Yeah, there are a couple of really important points to reinforce there. While you can delegate the management of that risk, i.e. the maintenance of the leased vehicles to the leasing company, you cannot delegate the ownership of the risk. The company always has the ownership and the responsibility to make sure that risk is managed. And it doesn’t matter what you did to manage that risk, what matters is that you can prove you did it, which is why record keeping is so important. So what are the key things that records need to be kept for? Those responsible for driver and vehicle safety, what should the