Radical Reformers podcast

This episode is with Rob Whiteman, the Chief Executive of CIPFA. Rob is a very thoughtful and influential commentator on local government and public service reform. He has had a hugely interesting and varied career including stints as Chief Executive at the London Borough of Barking and Dagenham and at the UK Border Agency (UKBA). Rob was at Barking and Dagenham when the BNP won an unprecedented number of council seats and he describes how the council worked to reengage with local communities to push back against some of the dangerous propaganda which had led to this election outcome. The learning from this is very relevant for council leaders today as many of our communities become increasingly polarised. As the former head of UKBA, Rob also provides some historical context and contemporary commentary on the small boats crisis. We spend most of our time talking about the state of local government and the main drivers for the financial crisis the sector finds itself facing. We discuss what the solutions could be including a return of a more radical version of Total Place, more collaboration between councils on issues like children’s social care and the potential of enhanced powers for Mayoral Combined Authorities. I also ask a new question “What would you do it you were Prime Minister for a day?”. Rob has a pretty radical answer!

This episode is with Dr. Linda Harris, the Chief Executive and Chief Medical Officer of Spectrum Community Health a Wakefield based social enterprise, which delivers services covering a wide range of areas including prison health, sexual health and substance misuse. Linda describes Spectrum’s services and their incredible growth journey from an organisation of just 100 people to more than 800. We talk about the challenges and opportunities of managing a large organisation of primary care professionals, many of whom are GPs, who we know can be quite independently minded! We also talk about what Linda calls jail craft, which is all of the various precautions and processes you have to follow when you're delivering health care in a secure environment. Delivering these types of services on a day to day basis, Linda understandably has a tremendous interest in the wider social determinants of health and we get into a discussion about health neglect, and social issues and how a person's situation can deteriorate over time. We also talk about some of the measures that can be put in place to try and prevent this very damaging and cumulative harm being done.

This episode is with Sarah Thomas, the Chief Executive of the Fostering Network, the UK’s leading fostering charity and membership organisation. The network provides training, support and advice to everyone involved in the fostering journey. This episode is part of Mutual Ventures' 2024 #PrioritisingPublicServices campaign. Sarah has an incredible and very relevant backstory, which involved going from homeless at 16 to being a Chief Executive at 40, which is incredible. Her passion for supporting vulnerable children and parents comes across strongly, along with some completely understandable frustration at how parts of the system work. You won't find many people with as much knowledge about the UK fostering and children's social care system so we really get into how system is performing, what's going well and what some of the challenges are. Sarah and I also unpack why the system isn't improving outcomes for children and young people, and what she thinks needs to happen to make a difference. We then move on to talk about one of the big questions troubling leaders across all public services i.e. how do you move towards prevention and away from crisis response? Especially at a time when council services don't have a lot of money. They certainly don't have much in the way of reserves. Within this context, how do you make that flip towards prevention? We also discuss how to tackle the stigma of seeking support as a parent, and also have a detailed discussion on children's residential care and why that market isn't working. And it certainly isn't!

This episode is with Rob Walsh, the long standing Chief Executive of Northeast Lincolnshire Council. Rob has been Chief Exec of Northeast Lincolnshire for 10 years now which, in an era of quite high turnover for top local government jobs, is quite some achievement! Rob tells the story of how Northeast Lincolnshire is an area which has seen decline in the fishing industry - but is now embracing a new era of possibility around the decarbonisation and renewable energy market. Northeast Lincolnshire is a fantastic case study for Place Leadership: It was the first time to receive a Town Deal back in 2018; It has a long-standing section 75 agreement, which is essentially a way of pooling funding and resources between councils and the health system; and they are also part of proposal for a Greater Lincolnshire Mayoral Combined Authority. On top of that, within Northeast Lincolnshire itself, there's quite a lot of co-terminosity between some of the key anchor institutions, the council, and some of the key health providers, who are largely social enterprises. Rob is a very humble and quietly inspiring leader. And in my opinion, there is something quite special happening in Northeast Lincolnshire. I think they are quietly becoming a forerunner for what other areas in the country could aspire to.

This episode is with Sam Allen, the Chief Executive of the North East and North Cumbria Integrated Care System. This system covers a huge geography with 3.6m people living in both urban and rural settings in 14(!) different council areas. As you can imagine, getting this up and running was a real challenge and Sam explains how she has led that work and engaged with partners across the region. Sam understands really effective public services needs to be centred around the person and she has a very clear understanding of her role as a system leader focusing on the strategic things which are best done at scale while empowering places and neighbourhoods to do the really important locally focused work. A big segment of our conversation is on children’s health. We discuss how no one part of the system (NHS, councils, third sector) can hope to improve outcomes acting on their own. Genuine collaboration must be enabled from the system level all the way down to places and neighbourhoods. We also talk about women’s health and the importance of raising awareness and understanding particularly in the workplace. It’s a fantastic conversation and I hope you enjoy it.

This episode is with Sam Plum, the inaugural Chief Executive of the new Westmorland and Furness Council. This council was created when Cumbria County Council split into two – so Westmorland and Furness has half the old County Council and the three districts, which used to sit in that geographical footprint. This #RadicalReformers episode is part of the February "Place Leadership" theme of our #PrioritisingPublicServices campaign. Sam gives her perspective on the different stages of implementing the change, starting with a period where the focus is on settling and stabilising. However, Sam has never lost sight of the forward vision and ensuring that the benefits of reorganisation are achieved for the people of Westmorland and Furness. Sam has some very clear ideas of what she wants to achieve in the long term, focusing on the three E's of equity, economy, and environment. One of the really striking things for me in this conversation is how Sam sees herself as a “place” leader, not just the leader of an organisation. She is ready to focus on wider benefits rather than just those which directly impact the council. I think there are huge lessons to be drawn from this conversation for place leaders and council leaders everywhere. Enjoy it!

This episode is with Elly De Decker, the Chief Executive of the Bromley by Bow Centre, a nationally renowned community centre in East London. Before this, Elly was the England Director of the National Lottery Community Fund, a huge job controlling a budget of £400m. Elly describes her decision to move from this highly visible national role to an ultra-local community-focused one. We talk about the support the Bromley By Bow centre provides, which ranges from health and wellbeing services, employment and skills support through to adult social care. The most impactful thing about the centre is the physical environment and culture which creates an “oasis” for local people to come to and get the help they need. The centre works closely with the NHS as well as council adult social care and public health services which gives Elly great insight into what’s working in the current system and what isn’t. We talk about the importance of the wider social determinants of health and how these are not yet prioritised by the formal system despite the impact they have on preventing demand for expensive NHS interventions. Elly and I discuss about how leaders will often talk the talk on better collaboration - but often this doesn’t filter down to day-to-day activities and therefore organisations and services remain siloed and people seeking support see no real difference. A key element of effective collaboration has to be better data sharing which allows partners to target their support in the best possible way and to also track their impact. Unfortunately, this remains a difficult issue and is often left in the too difficult pile. Having said all this, Elly is remarkably optimistic and positive. Her mantra is “assume it’s possible!” and I think you will be inspired by this conversation.

This episode is with Andy Couldrick. Andy is the Chair of the Birmingham Children’s Trust, having just stepped back from being the Chief Executive since the organisation was founded. Before joining the Trust, Andy led an incredibly fast children’s services improvement journey in Wokingham Council, moving up from a rating of “inadequate” in just a year. He explains how that was achieved and the importance of having the right team and being able to do many things in parallel. Andy also talks about his transition to Chief Executive from Director of Children’s Services and the different mindset and skills that required. Birmingham is not the only Children’s trust in the country and Andy explains exactly what a Trust is and how it works to give a service space and protection from what might be a difficult Council environment. Anyone with an interest in Local Government will know that Birmingham is facing some severe challenges. A key attribute Andy demonstrates is perseverance. He talks about the critical importance of keeping showing up and keeping consistent messaging over time, particularly of you are asking people who have been on multiple failed improvement journeys to trust you and buy in to what you are trying to achieve. And finally, we talked about the role of children’s services in the wider system and in particular the key role council services play in achieving system objectives around children’s health and wellbeing.

This episode is with leading health and care expert Nigel Edwards. Nigel recently stepped down as the chief Executive of the Nuffield Trust, a leading health think tank, after a wide-ranging career in the sector, which included a stint at NHS Confederation. This episode is very timely. Health and care services are adapting to a new structure at the same time as being under huge pressure and Nigel brings fantastic insight into what is currently happening within the system and what might change. We talk about the emphasis on “place” and “neighbourhoods” and the ambition for local services to be more co-ordinated, driven by local priorities and ultimately more focused on keeping people healthy and out of hospital. We ask the question – are leaders able to make time to build the relationships which are needed to enable this type of high trust working. We take a deep dive into children’s health and discuss the ambitious plans Integrated Care Boards have for children’s health and the fact that the NSH cannot possibly achieve them without working very closely with councils and other partners. We ask, what enabling leadership and conditions need to be in place to achieve these ambitions for children? None of these changes will have any effect unless the change permeates down to middle management and front line staff. We challenge the notion of the “frozen middle” or “permafrost” which is a criticism sometimes aimed at public sector middle managers and look at the potential of regional working and ask what the right level is for different activities. Enjoy it!

This episode is a real treat for anyone interested in a more person-centred way of delivering support. The conversation is with Helen Thomson, the Deputy Chief Executive of the Calico Group, an independent charity group which operates in the northwest and does everything from house building to employment support to helping people with drug and alcohol addiction. Andrew and Helen cover a lot of ground including how the Calico group is able to integrate the services they provide to ensure people get the seamless help they need. They do this through a focus on internal data sharing and ensuring trusting relationships and an understanding of all available services provided are in place across the organisation. Its all about not putting anyone in a box but rather offering them the tailored support they need. The Calico group also understands the multiple benefits of giving opportunities to people with lived experience to participate in the delivery of services. Who better to connect with and guide someone looking to reduce their dependence on drugs and/or alcohol than someone who has been on that journey. Helen also talks about the importance of taking controlled risks in the delivery of public services and the wonderful concept of “reverse mentoring”. Enjoy it!