Reimagining Justice

In today’s episode no. 23, Stacy Butler, Director, of Innovation for Justice at the University of Arizona Law speaks about the courses she coordinates and teaches, how they came about, what they teach including how they incorporate design thinking methodologies, but most importantly what they add to systems reform in Arizona and especially their local community.

I was amazed to hear about the collaboration both within the courses themselves, with students from a broad range of disciplines, and collaboration across universities, which provides such a powerful voice.

Stacy shared about the importance of supportive leadership in running new initiatives like her courses and where she thinks innovation will make the most difference in the delivery of legal services in the next five years. She commented a few times that I asked her questions no-one had asked her before, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing…

You will gain a lot from this episode if you are establishing or running an innovative university course, especially one that is multidisciplinary, interested in the connections and impact that can be made by students, universities working with communities and regulators, and especially if like more, you just love the idea of law students and art students working together to develop more effective human services.

Links:

• Innovation for Justice
• Step Up for Justice
• Arizona Task Force
• Hello Landlord
• Tucson Rent Project
• Legal Design Summit
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In today’s episode no. 22, I had the great pleasure of speaking with Katie who is currently the Deputy commissioner of IBAC in Victoria and who in 2015 as then President of the Law Institute of Victoria wrote a paper “Disruption, Innovation and Change”. Her reasons for doing that research were quite unexpected, as was the connection she draws between tech, atj and her happy place the queen Victoria market!

You will gain a lot from this episode if you are a legal tech start up or technology company looking to partner with justice organisations or working in an organisation and responsible for implementing new projects.

Katie shares her definition of failure and the importance of leadership. We had a wide ranging discussion covering why solutions can’t be imported wholesale from other jurisdictions, tips for responding to people and organizations at different stages of their innovation journeys, how incorporated legal practices are relevant to innovation, challenges of implementing new technology in a government context and for community legal centres, and especially what’s needed with an organization before you consider collaborating on innovation projects.

This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Lex Narro is an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services. Recently, Neota released Canvas – which goes a step further by allowing subject matter experts to build applications on their own in minutes without any prior training or programming skills. More about Canvas here.

Links:

• Disruption, Innovation and Change: The Future of the Legal Profession
• The Advantage
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In Episode no. 21 I interview the “father of incubators” Fred Rooney.

Fred generously shares his vast experience in establishing incubators in the US and other places around the world. From one program with nine students established around 15 years ago in New York, there are now over 70 programs worldwide training law graduates in areas of law that enable them to serve their local communities, as well as how to run a viable practice.

Incubators are unique training programs supported by a law school or law association as a way of addressing the issue of oversupply of law graduates and the growing levels of unmet legal needs. And through specific training in how to use legal skills to serve those who can’t afford typical legal fees, incubators are fulfilling the human need in lawyers who want to help those less fortunate.

This episode will be of special interest to legal educators wanting to ensure their graduate lawyers are ready for practice and to provide legal services to low and middle-income communities, and anyone interested in using their legal skills for the public good.

This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro, an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler.

Links: 

• ABA Incubators Report
• Open Society Foundations
• Lex Narro

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 20 I interview Sue Garlick, the first community legal centre lawyer on the podcast. Sue is Joint Director of LawRight, formerly QPILCH, a pro bono clearing house in Queensland which increases access to justice for vulnerable people through strategic partnerships with pro bono professionals.

Sue explains why LawRight - which itself was an innovation for its time - was established and shared her thoughts on innovation broadly and especially in the legal assistance sector, as well as her views on the biggest access to justice issue and ways to address it using specific examples from LawRight’s multidisciplinary services.

You are likely aware of the major ongoing challenge for the sector, namely decreasing government funding, but you may be surprised by what Sue sees as other challenges in regards to innovation. She had some interesting, perhaps controversial views about whether empathetic lawyering may co-exist with an entrepreneurial mindset.

This episode will be of special interest to justice entrepreneurs wanting to hear first-hand from an experienced community lawyer about current issues and challenges, to community lawyers wanting to be innovative in their service delivery and law students interested in a career in social justice.

In my view, the multidisciplinary and client-centric approach of community lawyering comes through very strongly.

Links:

• LawRight
• Law Yarn
• Legalpedia
• Community Legal Centres Qld needs
• Lawyers Weekly article

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 19 I interview Mark Swivel and Fiona Spencer of Barefoot Law. Mark is the founder and principal, and Fiona an associate at Barefoot Law which is a low cost community legal clinic based in the Northern Rivers of New South Wales.

Barefoot Law is taking a unique approach to providing legal advice to its local community in a way that shouldn’t be a surprising – by charging extremely affordable fees. You might be surprised just how affordable! Keep listening to find out how the cover the unavoidable costs of running a law firm.

Mark explains what motivated him to start Barefoot Law, the kinds of advice they provide, how and where they deliver it. We talk about the disconnect between the profession and everyday people’s understanding of the law and what’s needed. Mark also shares some thought- provoking views about whether lawyers can be entrepreneurs.

Mark and Fiona were very open in sharing the somewhat unexpected and personal challenges they’ve faced in running a law firm that honours its clients in very human way.

This episode will be of interest to you if you’re looking for ways to minimise costs in your law firm, in providing legal services to the missing middle or how to deliver legal advice in less traditional ways such as through unbundling.

Links:

• Barefoot Law
• Citizens Advice Bureau

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 18 I interview the first technology provider on the podcast! Dominique Simsion is Asia-Pacific Director of Consulting and Solutions at Neota Logic - the no code AI platform that enables the creation of intelligent web applications. Dominique explains what no-code document automation and expert systems are, the origins and evolution of the LawApps course which is a university course teaching project management and other skills that haven’t traditionally been part of a law degree.

She was very open about the challenges for community legal centres and the potential benefits to Neota Logic in providing the course and positive about the outcomes for students. We covered about the challenge of sustainability for IT projects, how to turn talk into action including her tips for incorporating innovation across a legal practice and Dominique had some particularly interesting views on innovation by press release and hackathons.

This episode will be of interest to lawyers wanting to understand how a no-code platform could work within their practice, community legal centres curious about how to incorporate technology, legal educators and law students interested in a legal tech program or practical experience.

While there is understandable investment on Neota Logic’s part in the future of its own business and growing the ecosystem of those familiar with its platforms, there is a genuine commitment within the constraints of the university program, to make it the best experience possible for the students and the community legal centres that Neota Logic aims to support.

It’s a really interesting example of collaboration between a technology provider, community law, universities and the private profession and it illustrates my point that everyone can play a part in improving access to justice.

Links: 

• Neota Logic
• LawApps University of Melbourne
• Youth Law
• Street Law
• “LEGAL INNOVATION” Education in Australian Law Schools

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 17 I was again fortunate to interview 2 people who’ve been part of a team working on an online tool to make it easier, quicker and cheaper for people to sort out claims arising from motor vehicle accidents. One of the guests is an expert in personal injuries law having represented people in some high profile and serious claims of sexual misconduct etc. and the other has a PhD in physics and before her current role was a post doc research fellow with the institute for bioengineering and nanotechnology.

Jodie Willey joined Shine Lawyers as a 16 year old articled clerk, keen to work with people to make a difference. For almost 25 years at Shine, Jodie has helped to shine a light on injustice and helped many thousands of clients and now, drawing on her blend of experience, Jodie is now focussed on innovation and how technology can transform the delivery of services in the legal sector.

Ann Bui joined Shine last year to work on the development of Claimify. Prior to this, Ann was a computational physicist, answering questions ranging from ‘how does malaria change the behaviour of red blood cells?’ to ‘how should conservationists classify the quality of sperm used in endangered animal breeding programs?’. You will hear in the interview exactly how a physicist has helped in developing Calimify suffice to say that using her computational modelling skills, Ann is keen to disrupt the legal industry so that there is greater transparency and access to justice for everyone.

In this episode you will hear about:

• Key features of the online tool and how having 10 years of data about a particular type of claim can more efficiently generate advice with the assistance of machine learning. In fact Ann draws parallels between how lawyers learn and how AI works; which begs the question of whether a lawyer could be replaced by a set of equations?
• How original assumptions about who might use the tool was challenged when the target was a youthful online user, but first client was a 62 yo woman.
• What’s critical if you’re in an established organisation doing “innovation”.
• The make up of the very multidisciplinary team and their process.
• Whether this type of tool could be approp for other types of claims
  including where the evidence is sensitive, and
• What has surprised Claimify about how and when people have used the platform.

You will especially enjoy this episode if you are interested in project management of a legal tech solution and what’s critical to success. What is quite unique about this online tool is the fact that it isn’t a legal tech start up or new law firm basically running a virtual law firm and providing a very client centric solution; but a very established Queensland law firm.

Links: 

• Claimify
• ALTA
• Max Kelsen

   

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 16 I interview Miguel Willis, a 2017 graduate from Seattle University School of Law and currently the inaugural Presidential Innovation Fellow at Law School Admission Council, where he oversees the Access to Justice Tech Fellows Program which is a program that pairs law students with legal services organizations to develop projects that support the use of technology, data, and design-thinking to bridge the justice gap in America.

Miguel is committed to leveraging his law degree in a non-traditional way to solve seemingly intractable problems and in this episode you will hear examples of how he does just that.

Miguel shares with me the personal reasons that led him to set up this innovative program, and how he is aiming to fill a gap in traditional legal education. We cover how he went about doing so, the types of organisations involved and the interesting projects they work on and how it leads to opportunities for students. We also cover how, funnily enough, Miguel ended up being a fellow in his own program.

In this episode you will hear how one person turned a good idea into action, the benefits and challenges of hackathons, the key to partnerships that have real impact, and actions we can take to improve diversity in the profession.

You will especially enjoy this episode if you are interested in the entrepreneurs’ journey including how to overcome issues of program sustainability; and creative models for new legal education and justice solutions.

Links: 

• ATJ Tech Fellows
• Justice Innovation Challenge
• Legal Services National Technology Assitance Project
• Internet bar organisation
• Innovation in Legal Practice Summit

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 15, I speak with namely Andrew Wight and Kath Manby of Adieu Legal, two people doing amazing work to make law better for people with family law disputes.

Andrew is an entrepreneur and multi-award-winning designer; CEO and co-founder of Adieu Legal, a Legal Tech start-up focused on creating better ways for humans to resolve conflict. Kath is a family lawyer with a single-minded passion for access-to-justice and as Legal Principal at Adieu Legal, exploring new ways to use technology to connect more people with good legal advice and keep them out of court.

Do you know what actually stops people from seeking legal advice? You might be surprised.

We explore issues with Australia’s family law system and how disputes and the growing epidemic of domestic violence could be reduced through ways other than court orders and the role of Adieu Legal’s sophisticated and very useful solution in all of this.

If you are interested in how human centred design helps identify people’s actual problems and leads to effective solutions, especially in the context of family law; or more generally, interested in legal tech and entrepreneurship to solve social problems and especially how clients can benefit from lawyers doing things differently and working in multidisciplinary teams – you will take a lot from this conversation with Kath and Andrew.

• Adieu Intelligent Divorce
• Andrew Wight Articles
• ALRC Family Law System Review – Final Report
• Impact Academy
• Family and Domestic Violence working with clients - The College of Law Training
• Lifeline's new Twitter DM chatbot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

In this episode no. 14, I speak with Joanna Mendoza, a member of the California State Bar Board of Trustees since 2013, and currently a member of the Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services.

Joanna and I discussed the recommendations voted upon by the Task Force on 28 June and where to from here. She shared why people from disciplines other than law need to be on a body that regulates lawyers, and where the risks should lie in the provision of legal services. We also talked about the wild card standing between the recommendations and their official implementation.

You will be interested in this interview if you want to understand the relationship between professional legal regulation and access to legal services, the influence of places like Silicon Valley on challenging the lawyers’ monopoly, and an emerging thread of the podcast, the importance of monitoring the effectiveness of any solution.

If you teach, study or enforce ethical rules, or have an idea that could potentially scale legal advice - lawyer or not; or are a potential investor in legal tech products or services – you won’t want to miss this conversation about the shifting sands of legal regulation….

Links:

• State Bar Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services Report
• TASK FORCE ON ACCESS THROUGH INNOVATION OF LEGAL SERVICES
• State Bar Study of Online Delivery of Legal Services – Discussion of Preliminary Landscape Analysis
• Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services
• Avvo
• Legal Zoom
• British 22-year-old lawtech entrepreneur raises £3.7 million from Facebook and Airbnb backers to help fund ‘robot lawyer’ app
• The College of Law

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group