Off-Trail Learning

Nick Bergson-Shilcock is the CEO and co-founder of the Recurse Center (recurse.com), a self-directed and community-driven educational retreat for computer programmers. Nick describes his background as a lifelong unschooler (he’s the son of Peter Bergson, a recent podcast guest), as well as his early interest in gaming and programming and his transition into college, career, and Y Combinator (the startup incubator). We discuss how RC differs from “coding bootcamps,” who applies, who gets in, how the whole thing is funded, RC’s unique social rules (no well-actually’s, no feigning surprise, no back-seat driving, and no subtle -isms), and Nick’s evolving views on unschooling. Visit Nick’s personal website at https://nick.is/ Recorded on July 20, 2021.

Anna Smith and Mara Donahoe are the co-founders (with Natasha Morisawa) of the National Association of Home & Hybrid Education (homeandhybrideducation.org), a new advocacy organization that hopes to bring together all members of the alternative education movement in the United States. We discuss why Home & Hybrid Education (HHE) was created, whether the U.S. needs another homeschool organization, how HHE differs from other large organizations (AERO, ASDE, HSLDA), and why public hybrid options deserve a seat at the table. I ask them what a massively successful HHE would look like in 10 years, why they’re interested in the thankless task of building a politically centrist “big tent” organization, and how parents can get involved today. Anna and Mara are also co-founders of Urban Homeschoolers in Los Angeles, which you can learn more about at urbanhomeschoolers.com. Blake’s new free audio workshop, How to Stay Motivated as a Self-Directed Learners, is available at blakeboles.com/motivation.

While biking through the south of France, I met Lilli and Elena, two 19-year-old German women who are also on a cycling adventure. (We shared the same Couchsurfing host.) We discuss their bike trip, their path through formal education in Germany, why they’re taking a gap year, how they spend less than $10/day, how they stay safe, and what the trip has taught them so far. (Lilli and Elena have no website or social media -- kudos to them!)

Joel Malkoff (joelkmalkoffcircusartist.com) is a contemporary circus artist and 27-year-old grown unschooler from Indiana. We discuss Joel’s recent experience at the National Circus School of Montreal (“the Harvard of circus”), the job market for circus artists, and his new 3-person circus collective, La Quadrature (instagram.com/laquadrature). We also talk about Joel’s upbringing as an unschooler, his mother's influence, his childhood passions (skateboarding, parkour, guitar), his experiences at Not Back to School Camp, the difficulty of getting organized as a self-directed learner, the challenge of French immersion in Quebec, and how the pandemic affected his career. Recorded on August 1st, 2021.

Alfie Kohn (alfiekohn.org) is the author of fourteen books and a well-known advocate of progressive education. Mr. Kohn discusses the purpose behind his 30+ years of advocacy, his critique of “grit” and “growth mindset”, and his take on the classic progressive school models (Montessori/Waldorf/Reggio) as well as homeschooling, unschooling, and highly self-directed schools & centers. He expresses concern over the extreme varieties of self-directed education and argues for the vital role of teachers (and other actively-involved adults) in education. We end by identifying common ground between the self-directed and progressive education movements. The following articles are referenced in this interview: The Trouble with Pure Freedom (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/trouble-pure-freedom/ The Progressive Teacher’s Role in the Classroom (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/blogs/paradox/ Rewards Are Still Bad News (25 Years Later) (by Alfie Kohn): https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/rewards-25-years-later/ Differences Between Self-Directed and Progressive Education (by Peter Gray): https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201706/differences-between-self-directed-and-progressive-education

Catherine Fraise is the founder of Workspace Education (workspaceeducation.org) and 100 Roads (100roads.org). We discuss Catherine’s background as a Montessori educator, the pivotal trip to Japan she took as a 12-year-old, the Workspace co-learning and co-working center she created in Connecticut, and her newest venture, WorkspaceSky Teens: an online community for teenage self-directed learners. We touch on the trade-off between virtual and in-person communities, the logistical and financial challenges faced by would-be founders of alternative schools, and how the pandemic was a blessing in disguise for Catherine’s trajectory as an innovator. She also pitches me on joining the WorkspaceSky team, right here on my own podcast :D

Peter Bergson is the co-founder of two self-directed learning centers in the Philadelphia area: Open Connections (openconnections.org) and Natural Creativity Center (naturalcreativity.org). We discuss Peter’s journey from creativity consultant to early childhood educator, his collaboration with John Holt, fighting for better homeschooling laws in the 80s, growing a tiny self-directed learning center in a bigger and better-funded one, the importance of “sense of belonging” for young people, and his attempt to bring his ideas to inner-city Philadelphia. Peter stars in the 2020 documentary “Unschooled” (unschooledthemovement.com), which I highly recommend. The new center that his children have started is Cupola Academy (cupolaacademy.org).

Pat Farenga returns to talk about the second half of Harvard’s “Post-Pandemic Future of Homeschooling” conference, after which we discuss a different, secret, *invite-only* Harvard summit (hosted by Elizabeth Bartholet and James Dwyer) that proposed extremely restrictive reforms to homeschooling laws. If you care about the future of homeschooling in the United States — and the reasons that some well-intentioned people may try to shut it down — don’t miss this episode! Blake’s notes from the Harvard Homeschool Summit are here: https://bit.ly/blake-cap-homeschool-conf-notes Recordings from the Post-Pandemic Future of Homeschooling conference are here: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers/taubman/programs-research/pepg/events/future-homeschooling Patrick Farenga is the president and publisher of Growing Without Schooling magazine and the co-author (with John Holt) of Teach Your Own: The John Holt Book Of Homeschooling, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. Learn more about Pat and John at johnholtgws.com.

In this special two-part discussion, Pat Farenga and I discuss Harvard University’s ongoing 7-week conference, the “Post-Pandemic Future of Homeschooling.” This free online conference brings together researchers and academics in the field of homeschooling, and Pat and I are here to share what they’re talking about, the arguments they’re making, and what we think of all this. In this first episode we discuss weeks 1-4 of the conference: Should homeschooling laws change? Who is homeschooling today? Are homeschoolers prepared for life? And—are homeschoolers socially isolated? We get into some spicy discussions regarding homeschooling regulation, Harvard Law Professor Elizabeth Bartholet’s ideas for protecting vulnerable children, the nature and limits of academic research, and political factions within the homeschool movement. Look forward to part two coming out later this month! Patrick Farenga is the president and publisher of Growing Without Schooling magazine and the co-author (with John Holt) of Teach Your Own: The John Holt Book Of Homeschooling, which celebrates its 40th anniversary this year. Learn more about Pat and John at johnholtgws.com. Recordings of the Harvard conference are here: https://www.hks.harvard.edu/centers/taubman/programs-research/pepg/events/future-homeschooling More about the Connecticut study: https://responsiblehomeschooling.org/36-of-students-withdrawn-to-be-homeschooled-have-past-abuse-reports-connecticut-report-finds/

Debbie Reber (debbiereber.com) is the author of Differently Wired: Raising an Exceptional Child in a Conventional World and the founder of TiLT Parenting (tiltparenting.com), a podcast and online community. We discuss how Debbie coaches parents on issues of neurodivergence, the challenges that school systems present for “differently wired” kids, her response to the critics, what it was like raising her son in the Netherlands for 5 years, and how she ended up here in the first place. (Blake also makes some exciting announcements in the very beginning.) Originally recorded on March 29, 2021.