Off-Trail Learning

If you have a kid who has been identified as academically gifted, is a self-directed learning center a good place for them? Kristen Montesano, co-founder of EPIC Life Learning Community in Dallas, Texas (epiclifelearningcommunity.com), grew up in public school gifted programs, yet she was still bored and unchallenged. In college she began volunteering at a democratic free school which soon inspired her to think about starting her own program. In this interview she explains how self-directed learning centers like EPIC have a special power to serve the needs of academically gifted kids, including issues of self-perception and self-worth. Find the related article that Kristen wrote here: https://medium.com/@kristenmontesano/giftedness-in-self-directed-education-a1774ea1197a

In May 2020, Elizabeth Bartholet, a Harvard Law Professor, called for significant new regulations on homeschooling in the United States. In this extra-long episode, I interview Professor Bartholet about her ideas, research, and proposals. We are joined by Rachel Coleman, executive director of the Coalition for Responsible Home Education — and a grown homeschooler herself — who contributes a wealth of experience and impassioned arguments for increasing oversight of homeschooling. While all three of us have different visions of what “appropriate regulation” might be, we also find areas of agreement. Discussion topics include: Who homeschools in the U.S.? How prevalent is abuse and neglect? What is good and important about homeschooling? What’s the justification for increased regulation? Do bad schools inflict just as much (or more) harm on children than homeschooling? And what are the most essential legal changes that Bartholet and Coleman would each like to see enacted? Read more about Professor Bartholet’s perspectives in the original Arizona Law Review article (https://arizonalawreview.org/homeschooling-parent-rights-absolutism-vs-child-rights-to-education-protection/), the Harvard Magazine interview with her (https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2020/05/right-now-risks-homeschooling), and her interview with the Harvard Gazette (https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/05/law-school-professor-says-there-may-be-a-dark-side-of-homeschooling/). Learn more about Rachel Coleman and the Coalition for Responsible Home Education at responsiblehomeschooling.org.

Many teachers aspire to work at progressive schools that are more kind, individualized, and humane. But what do you do when even the “best schools” still treat kids with distrust and coercion? Aaron Eden has asked this question over his long career in education, ultimately leading him to his current position as Executive Director at the Institute for Applied Tinkering (which oversees the Brightworks School in San Francisco). We discuss Aaron's journey away from techno-optimism, the subtle art of offering voluntary challenges to young people, the difficulty of deschooling, the pendulum-swing between "authoritarian" and "permissive" parenting, and his faith in the Brightworks School model. Learn more about Aaron and his work at edunautics.com and eliadgroup.com.

This special episode celebrates the release of Blake’s new book, Why Are You Still Sending Your Kids to School?, which is now available through local bookstores, Amazon.com, and other marketplaces. Joined by guest host Kevin Currie-Knight, Blake discusses how kids learn to work hard when given the freedom to self-direct, the nature of “intensive parenting,” the true value of a college degree, and how to avoid dogmatic thinking in education. Learn more about the book here: https://blakeboles.com/y/

James Dwyer is a professor of law at William & Mary Law School and the co-author of Homeschooling: The History & Philosophy of a Controversial Practice (University of Chicago Press, 2019). Following the arc of Jim’s excellent book (co-authored with historian Shawn Peters), we discuss some foundational questions related to homeschooling, such as: What is the state’s role in family affairs? To what extent are children their own people? What basic human goods does every young person deserve to access? And most interestingly, what is the proper way to regulate homeschooling in the United States? Professor Dwyer received his law degree from Yale Law School and a Ph.D. in political and moral philosophy from Stanford University. He teaches Family Law and Youth Law (among other subjects) and has authored a half dozen books and dozens of articles on child-welfare related topics.

17-year-old Zoe Greenhouse (zoegreenhouse.com) talks about her recent decision to stop going to school and attempt a thru-hike of the 2,650-mile Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). Zoe discusses her background as an unschooler and world-schooler, the handful of private and public schools she attended, her decision to leave school and spend 5+ months on the PCT, and how she has prepared for the journey. Zoe started her hike in March of 2020. Follow her progress on Instagram: @zoegreenhouse [Please pardon the sound quality—Zoe and I were each on the road, without proper recording equipment or reliable wi-fi.]

Maya Landers (mayalanders.com) is a 22-year-old lifelong unschooler from Austin, Texas, who always thought she would go to college to study English. Yet at 17 she opted to take a gap year… followed by another gap year… which turned into another gap year…. and yet another! We discuss Maya’s decision-making process regarding college, how she spent her gap years (doing a combination of writing, volunteering, working, and teaching English in China), how she built community, how she made it all work financially. We also touch on her plans for the future and her advice for other young adults considering a similar trajectory.

After teaching 6th grade reading at a tough school in Mississippi, Matthew Gioia discovered the Sudbury Valley School literature and quickly became enamored. Like many people (myself included) Sudbury represents an idyllic philosophy that leaves behind the baggage of conventional education. But how do the ideals match up with actual Sudbury schools? Matthew joins me to discuss the day-to-day realities of school governance, the justice system, motivation, staff-student relations, adult non-intervention, and preparing for life beyond school at the Hudson Valley Sudbury School (sudburyschool.com) where he has worked for seven years. [Apologies for the background noise on Matthew's end, it was due to a hyperactive laptop fan!]

Kerry McDonald (fee.org/kerry) is the author of the 2019 book, Unschooled: Raising Curious, Well-Educated Children Outside the Conventional Classroom, as well as a regular contributor to Forbes, the Cato Institute, and the Foundation for Economic Education. We discuss Kerry’s faith in the private sector to nurture innovative education models, what sets her book apart from others, her path through Harvard Graduate School of Education, her role in founding the Alliance for Self-Directed Education, and her mysterious new ed-tech business. (Update: not so mysterious any more! Visit https://unschool.school) Kerry has four children, all of whom are unschooled, and three of whom regularly attend a hackerspace/makerspace in Boston.

Gina Riley, Ph.D., is an educational psychologist and Clinical Professor of Adolescent Special Education at Hunter College in New York City. She's also the leading researcher on the connection between unschooling and Self-Determination Theory. Gina discusses the three factors that generate intrinsic motivation (competence, autonomy, and relatedness), why kids like extracurriculars more than school, the many parenting styles associated with unschooling, how to support a kid’s autonomy (even when you don’t like what they do with it), and how learning disabilities coexist with unschooling. Find all of Gina’s work at http://hunter-cuny.academia.edu/ginariley.