Another Kind of Mind: A Different Kind of Beatles Podcast

Part 1 in a 3-part conversation about Peter Jackson’s documentary epic, GET BACK.

 

Join Phoebe and Daphne for a discussion of Peter Jackson's most controversial edits, Yoko’s celluloid makeover, the state of John & Paul’s relationship and the invisible interloper, heroin.

SOURCES Get Back, dir. Peter Jackson (2021) Michael Lindsay Hogg, Interview for Radio New Zealand (Dec 4, 2021) Understanding Lennon/McCartney vol 2, dir. breathless345 (2022)

Join Phoebe and Sam Whiles, host of Paul or Nothing podcast, as they discuss the cinematic portrayals of the McCartney and Lennon marriages. What mythology do they create for themselves? What does the public (fans, authors and outside media) project onto them? How have their images changed over time?

Movies discussed in this episode: The Linda McCartney Story (2000) and John and Yoko: a Love Story (1985).

Paul or Nothing: https://mccartneypod.podbean.com 

Join Phoebe and Sam Whiles, host of Paul or Nothing podcast, as they discuss the TV movie John and Yoko: A Love Story (1985).

Paul or Nothing: https://mccartneypod.podbean.com 

Join Phoebe and Sam Whiles, host of Paul or Nothing podcast, as they discuss the TV movie The Linda McCartney Story (2000).

Paul or Nothing: https://mccartneypod.podbean.com 

Peter Jackson's long-awaited documentary series Get Back launches on Disney Plus in just 3 days (November 25, 2021)! Join Phoebe, Daphne, and Thalia for a deeply analytical, level-headed, and definitely not hysterical countdown to this groundbreaking event in Beatledom! They discuss the Get Back book, teasers, remixes, and other advance media. Also discussed are such hard-hitting questions as “What are George’s opinions on cat food?” and “WTF is it about McBeardy, anyway?”

CW: Even more swearing than usual; gratuitous d*ck jokes.

‘Pizza and Fairytales’ is John Lennon’s phrase— a brilliant one—and he conjured it to describe one man: Paul McCartney. 

John in the 70s is fairly well documented. But what about the less communicative, less examined half of Lennon/McCartney? In this episode, Phoebe and Daphne give McCartney two things he doesn’t often get: detailed lyrical analysis and recognition of his atypical self-expression. Extending this basic respect serves to shine a brighter, warmer light on the Lennon/McCartney relationship—not just in the 70s but up to present day and beyond. 

Lennon and McCartney will be joined forever; they deserve to have their true story told.

PLAYLIST

Some People Never Know WINGS (1971) Big Barn Bed WINGS (1973) Band on the Run PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS (1973) Dear Friend WINGS (1971) Little Lamb Dragonfly WINGS (1973) Isolation JOHN LENNON (1970) Ram On PAUL & LINDA McCARTNEY (1971) Too Many People PAUL & LINDA McCARTNEY (1971) Best Friend WINGS (1972) Let Me Roll It PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS (1973) Beef Jerky JOHN LENNON (1974) #9 Dream JOHN LENNON (1974) Bless You JOHN LENNON (1974) Whatever Gets You Through the Night JOHN LENNON (1974) Venus and Mars WINGS (1975) Call Me Back Again WINGS (1975) Silly Love Songs WINGS (1976) Let’s Love PAUL McCARTNEY (1975) Howling at the Moon JOHN LENNON (1979)

SOURCES

Paul McCartney, interview w/ Ray Connolly, Evening Standard: Paul on ‘Why the Beatles broke up’. (April 21st, 1970) The Lyrics: 1956 to the Present, Paul McCartney & Paul Muldoon (2021) Paul and Linda McCartney w/ Joan Goodman, Playboy (1984) Paul McCartney in Venice (September 1976) Paul McCartney w/ Scott Osbourne (March 1974) George Harrison in Sounds Magazine (Nov 9, 1974) Paul McCartney to Melody Maker (November 1971) Paul McCartney on Day by Day (July 10, 1980) John & Yoko interview, w/ McCabe and Schonfeld at St. Regis Hotel (Sept 9, 1971)  Lennon Remembers w/ Jann Wenner, Rolling Stone (1970) John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman (2008) Loving John, May Pang (1983) Paul McCartney to Club Sandwich (1994) Paul McCartney to Billboard interview (2001) Peter Doggett talks to Mike McCartney (Beatles Book Monthly No. 199, Nov 1992) The Beatles (afterword) by Hunter Davies (re-issued version from 1985) Fresh Air w/ Terry Gross (2021) Howard Stern Show (Nov 10, 2021) Howard Stern Show (2013) Paul McCartney w/ Anthony DeCurtis for Rolling Stone: The Paul McCartney interview. (November 5th, 1987) Paul McCartney, from Beatles Monthly Book, N°256 (August 1997)

What happened between Paul and John that forever altered their relationship and created the emotional stalemate John dubbed “Pizza and Fairytales?”

In episode four, we evaluate four likely scenarios based on a comprehensive study of the available evidence.

Join Phoebe and Daphne on a deep exploration into the inspiration behind and meaning of Pizza and Fairytales.

SOURCES 

Many Years From Now, Barry Miles (1997) Man on the Run, Tom Doyle (2015) Playboy Interview w/ John and Yoko (1980) John Lennon, “Lennon Remembers” w/ Jann Wenner (1970) Here, There and Everywhere, Geoff Emerick (2011) Dakota Days, John Green (1983) Last Days of John Lennon, Fred Seaman (1983) Body Count, Francie Schwartz (1973) Paul McCartney: the Definitive Biography by Chris Salewicz (1985) Dave Sholin from The Day John Lennon Died (2009) Allen Klein, Playboy: A candid conversation with the embattled manager of the Beatles. (November, 1971) The Beatles Authorized Biography by Hunter Davies, Afterword (1985) Paul McCartney letter to Brian Epstein — The Scotsman: Sad record of designs on a career which could never be. (March 27th, 2000) John Lennon, interview w/ Barry Miles, (partially) unpublished. (September 23rd, 1969) Alistair Taylor, With the Beatles. (2003) Bridesmaids, director Paul Feig (2011) Paul McCartney, interview w/ Ray Connolly, Evening Standard: Paul on ‘Why the Beatles broke up’. (April 21st, 1970) John Lennon: the Life, Philip Norman (2008) Derek Taylor, Lennon Revealed (2007) Paul McCartney on German TV Exclusiv (1985) Victor Spinetti Up Front . . .: His Strictly Confidential Autobiography (October 1, 2006) Sir Paul McCartney Interview, Evening Standard (December 14, 2018) The Untold Stories of Paul McCartney, GQ (Sept 11, 2018) John Lennon: A Journey in the Life BBC special (December 6, 1985) Mark Lewisohn Tune In Extended Edition (2013) In My Life, Pete Shotton (1983) McCartney by Christopher Sandford (2007) Loving John, May Pang (1983) Bob Spitz, The Beatles: The Biography (2005) Lennon & McCartney Interview w/ Larry Kane (May 13, 1968) John Lennon Interview w/ McCabe & Schonfeld at St. Regis Hotel (Sept 9, 1971) Harry Nilsson Interview w/ Geoffrey Guiliano (Feb 17, 1984) Derek Taylor, Lennon Revealed (2007) Paul McCartney, The Adam Buxton Podcast, episode 144 (2020) Sandra Shevey Interview w/ John & Yoko (1972) Amoralto.tumblr.com “I’m Still Standing” John Harris, The Guardian (June 11, 2004) The Lyrics: 1956 to the Present, Paul McCartney & Paul Muldoon (2021) Paul McCartney, interview w/ Ray Bonici for Music Express. (May, 1982) Paul McCartney and Mike McCartney, by Mark Rowland, Playgirl (June, 1982) MarijkeKogerArt.com Lennon & McCartney Interview w/ Keith Fordyce BBC (August 1966) Yoko Ono, interview w/ Paul Trynka for MOJO. (May, 2003) John & Yoko Interview w/ Laurie Kaye (December 8, 1980) John & Yoko Interview w/ Dave Sholin (December 8, 1980) Yoko Interview BBC Radio 6 “06: Two of Us” (1990) John Lennon w/ Elliot Mintz (January 1976) John Lennon to David Sheff (September 1980) Paul McCartney, interview w/ Mark Binelli for Rolling Stone: Sir Paul rides again. (October 20th, 2005) Crossing Over: The Stories Behind the Stories, John Edward (2002) BBC documentary Mr. Blue Sky (2012) “Paul McCartney Doesn’t Really Want to Stop the Show” by David Remnick, The New Yorker (October 18, 2021)

PLAYLIST

Now and Then, JOHN LENNON (1977) I’m So Tired, THE BEATLES (1968) Across the Universe, THE BEATLES (1968) Fool on the Hill, THE BEATLES (1967) Look At Me (demo) JOHN LENNON (1968) Hey Bulldog THE BEATLES (1968) I Don’t Know PAUL McCARTNEY (2018) Real Love JOHN LENNON (1980) Some People Never Know WINGS (1971)

1975 and 76 represent a pivotal moment for John Lennon, and his choices at this juncture determine his fate in his final years. Episode Three is a deep exploration of John’s ongoing inner conflicts: his lasting trauma over the Beatles breakup; his susceptibility to Yoko’s continuing mind games; his predilection for jealousy and insecurity. 

All this, plus the long shadow cast by the nightmarish Primal Scream Therapy John underwent at the hands of Arthur Janov. It’s a topic which usually slides under the radar of Beatles discourse—until now. AKOM’s hard, probing look at Janov reveals his therapy’s catastrophic effects on John’s psyche and on the Lennon-McCartney relationship. 

Ultimately, John chooses not to revive his partnership with Paul McCartney in New Orleans. How does this alter the course of their renewed relationship? And how does John's eventual descent into depression, paranoia and superstition alter both his feelings for and perception of Paul?

TW: Psychological abuse, homophobia

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SOURCES Loving John, MAY PANG (1983) John Lennon interview w/ Alan Freeman (January, 1975) May Pang, The Beatles’ Biggest Secrets BBC doc (2004) Linda McCartney: A Portrait DANNY FIELDS (2001) “Arthur Janov, 93, Dies; Psychologist Caught World’s Attention With ‘Primal Scream’” by Margalit Fox, NEW YORK TIMES (Oct 2, 2017) “On Homosexuality as a Normal Variant of Human Sexuality” (Sunday, January 8, 2012) “On Becoming Homosexual. Is it Becoming?” (Saturday, May 23, 2009) John & Yoko interview, w/ McCabe and Schonfeld (Sept 9, 1971)  John & Yoko Interview w/ Howard Smith, (January 23, 1972) Robert Christgau, Village Voice: Living without The Beatles. (September, 1971) Art Garfunkel, Beatles Stories doc (2011) Francis Schoenberger, SPIN MAGAZINE (1975) Letter 204 to Rick Sklar dated July 1975, The John Lennon Letters (2012) Home cassette, recorded for Vin Scelsa at WNEW-FM (Autumn, 1975) Interview w/ Elliot Mintz (January 1, 1976)  Klaus Voormann, c/o Memories of John Lennon. (2005) The Beatles (afterword) by Hunter Davies (re-issued version from 1985) John Lennon: The Life by Philip Norman (2008) Man on the Run TOM DOYLE (2013) John Lennon w/ Bob Harris for The Old Grey Whistle Test BBC, (April 18, 1975) Paul McCartney w/ Jay Cocks for Time: McCartney comes back. (May 31st, 1976) Lennon Remembers, Rolling Stone (1970) The Primal Center for Treatment, Training and Research “About John Lennon” (2008) Last Days of John Lennon, FRED SEAMAN (1990) John Lennon interview w/ Barbara Graustark, NEWSWEEK (September 1980) Dakota Days, JOHN GREEN (1983) Paul McCartney, The Adam Buxton Podcast, episode 144 (2020) The Love You Make, Peter Brown (1983) The Beatles Roundup Interview, Theatre Royal, Glasgow, (April 30, 1964)  Paul McCartney Reddit chat (December 2020) Jack Douglas to Ben Yakas, Gothamist (July 19, 2016) John Lennon, Interview for Playboy (1980) Jimmy Carter on The Late Show w/ Stephen Colbert (March 31, 2018)

PLAYLIST Helen Wheels WINGS Tennessee (demo) JOHN LENNON Letting Go WINGS Bridge on the River Suite WINGS San Ferry Ann WINGS Let Em In WINGS Love JOHN LENNON Beware My Love WINGS Call Me Back Again (live) WINGS

In our second installment of Pizza & Fairytales, we discuss how Yoko draws Paul into her mind games with John. Highlights of Paul’s ensuing visit to John in LA include the Toot ‘n’ Snore jam session and a peculiar Polaroid message sent to Jann Wenner.   Back in New York, John gives his last ever concert performance and the Beatles are finally, legally dissolved. Afterwards, Paul invites John to a rendezvous in New Orleans, setting the stage for a possible Lennon-McCartney reunion. __   SOURCES Loving John, MAY PANG (1983) Many Years From Now, BARRY MILES (1997) Chris Salewicz interview w/ Paul McCartney (Sept 1986) “Ballad of Yoko” BBC programme (1998) “Can’t buy me love: Yoko tells how Paul saved her marriage to John” The Times UK (Oct 9, 2010) Man on the Run, TOM DOYLE (2013) Sticky Fingers, JOE HAGAN (2017) John & Yoko Interview w/ David Wigg St. Regis Hotel, NY (October, 1971) Sandra Shevey Interview w/ John & Yoko (1972) John Lennon and Yoko Ono, interview w/ Jonathan Cott for Rolling Stone: Yoko Ono and her sixteen-track voice. (March 18th, 1971) Tony King Interview w/ BBC In My Life: John Lennon Remembered (1990) John Lennon interview w/ Alan Freeman (January, 1975) Harry Nilsson Interview w/ Geoffrey Guiliano (Feb 17, 1984) Life: “Paul McCartney talks about the Beatle breakup and his new life” (April 16th, 1971) Audio letter to John Lennon from Mimi Smith as excerpted on Lost Lennon Tapes (early 1970s)   PLAYLIST Move on Fast YOKO ONO Let Me Roll it PAUL MCCARTNEY & WINGS Meat City JOHN LENNON Stand By Me, LENNON/McCARTNEY and PALS Bluebird (One Hand Clapping) PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS I’ll Never Leave You HARRY NILSSON Whatever Gets You Thru the Night (live) ELTON JOHN & JOHN LENNON I Saw Her Standing There (live) ELTON JOHN & JOHN LENNON Bless You JOHN LENNON Beef Jerky JOHN LENNON You Gave Me the Answer PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS    

Our first episode follows John and Paul’s reconciliation in 1972-1973, John & Yoko’s decision to separate, John’s move to Los Angeles with May Pang and John’s steps toward self-acceptance.

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TW: violence

SOURCES

Interview w/ Barbara Graustark for Newsweek (1980) This Is Not Here Press Conference, Everson Museum in Syracuse, NY (October 8, 1971) Gary Von Syock, LiveforLiveMusic.com  (2015) Lennon: the Man, the Myth, the Music TIM RILEY (2011) You Never Give Me Your Money, PETER DOGGETT (2009) Elliot Mintz Interview w/ John and Yoko (1973) John Lennon on Weekend World  (April 8, 1973) Paul McCartney to Nicky Horne (1973) JOHN LENNON THE LIFE, Philip Norman (2008) Daily Beast, YOKO ONO (Oct 13, 2015) John Lennon, interview w/ Lisa Robinson for Hit Parader (December, 1975)  The Gay Liberation Book (1972) Loving John, MAY PANG (1983) John Lennon on Women’s Hour (May 28, 1971) John Lennon Interview w/ Sandra Shevey (1972) John Lennon Interview for PLAYBOY (1980) Paul McCartney Interview, Telegraph UK (Aug 25, 2009)

PLAYLIST

I Know, I Know JOHN LENNON Silly Love Songs WINGS New York City JOHN & YOKO Get On the Right Thing PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS Mamunia Paul McCartney & WINGS I Know I Know (demo) JOHN LENNON No Words PAUL McCARTNEY & WINGS Mind Games JOHN LENNON I Can’t Stand the Rain ANN PEEBLES When the Night (Newcastle 73) WINGS Move on Fast YOKO ONO