Let's Talk About Sects

Edgar Bronfman Sr. of the Seagram liquor fortune once wrote a testimonial for a course he had taken through an organisation called Executive Success Programs, or ESP. He said, quote, “If everyone were to go through this training, the world would be a much better and safer place to live.” Seventeen years later, the leader and inner circle of that same organisation, now going under the name NXIVM, would be on trial for charges including sex trafficking, forced labour, fraud, extortion and child pornography.

UPDATE: Keith Raniere sentenced to 120 years in prison. Allison Mack sentenced to 3 years in prison.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

With thanks to Audio-Technica, presenting partner for season 3 of Let's Talk About Sects.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• The Founder of “Nxivm,” a Purported Self-Help Organization Based in Albany, N.Y., Arrested for Sex Trafficking and Forced Labor Conspiracy — US Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of New York
• Complaint and Affidavit — US Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of New York
• Jury Finds Nxivm Leader Keith Raniere Guilty of All Counts — US Attorney's Office for the Eastern District of New York

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On the 14 June 2019, news broke in Australia that many people had been waiting on for a number of years. That news was the death of this country’s most notorious cult leader, Anne Hamilton-Byrne.

In this bonus episode, I’m bringing you an interview with investigative journalist Chris Johnston, who has been looking into The Family for quite some time. He worked with director Rosie Jones on her recent documentary ‘The Cult of the Family’, and they also co-wrote a book together about the group and its history. Chris spoke to me from Melbourne.

CORRECTION: In this episode I mentioned that Chris Johnston is a senior journalist for The Age. He worked with The Age for 20 years but is not currently working there.

Special Guest: Chris Johnston.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• The Family: The shocking true story of a notorious cult — by Chris Johnston & Rosie Jones, Scribe Publications, 2016
• The Family — Documentary film website

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chung Moo Quan positioned itself as a superior martial arts school that taught eight different practices at once. Though this may have originally struck prospective students as a bargain-and-a-half, many who chose to take it up would come out the other end having lost thousands of dollars, personal relationships and job opportunities, and even their sense of self. Before the school’s founder and four other defendants were jailed in 1995, various experts had told reporters that Chung Moo Quan fit their definition of a destructive cult.

Special Guest: Russell Johnson.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Deceived: The Moo Years — podcast by Russell Johnson, with many resources from his research
• Herding the Moo: Exploits of a Martial Arts Cult — by Joe Smith, Trafford Publishing, 2006
• Investigators: Students take aim at martial arts school — by Chris Ingalls, KING 5 News, 16 February 2005
• The Cult and the Con — special report by Pam Zekman, CBS 2 Chicago, 1989
• Chung Moonies? Critics call martial-arts club a cult of violence and greed — by Ric Kahn, The Boston Phoenix, 25 October 1991
• Be True to Your School — by Jennifer Vogel, City Pages, 1 April 1992
• The Martial Arts Cult of John C. Kim — by Laurence Gonzales, unpublished article for Penthouse, 5 May 1992

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The Order of the Solar Temple was a secret society that would go down sharing the pages of history with Jonestown, the Branch Davidians and Heaven’s Gate. But is it fair to compare the groups? When it comes to incidents of mass violence and cults, perhaps it may be unavoidable. Because whether they ended in mass murder-suicide or a different form of violence, in spite of the striking ideological differences between them, there were some similarities – in all of these groups that ended with such undeniable tragedy.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Millennium, Messiahs, and Mayhem: Contemporary Apocalyptic Movements — by Thomas Robbins & Susan J. Palmer, Psychology Press, 1997
• Pont-Saint-Esprit poisoning: Did the CIA spread LSD? — by Mike Thomson, BBC News, 23 August 2010
• Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis — AMORC international website
• The Tragedy Of The Solar Temple Cult — by Stephen Dafoe, TemplarHistory.com, 1 April 2010
• A Preacher With a Dark Side Led Cultists to Swiss Chalets — by Alan Riding, The New York Times, 9 October 1994
• The Order of the Solar Temple: The Temple of Death — by Professor James R Lewis, Ashgate Publishing, 2013
• Coroner's Report into the deaths at Morin Heights, Cheiry and Salvan — in French, June 1996
• "Our Terrestrial Journey is Coming to an End": The Last Voyage of the Solar Temple — by Jean-Francois Mayer, Nova Religio, 1999

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

A New Zealand-born man who moved to Australia in the 1970s and started a sect, telling his eventual 9 wives and 60-plus children that he was Jesus Christ, was put behind bars for 7 years in Victoria in 2000. In spite of the fairly sensational nature of his lifestyle and crimes, his name is not well-known here, and his polygamous group gained the most media attention when a recent Bachelor Australia contestant was outed by the press for her childhood involvement.

This episode we’re talking about a cult that didn’t officially have a name, but was unofficially referred to as The Seaside Sect.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Abuser kept secret through cult of fear — by Naomi Larkin, NZ Herald, 12 August 2000
• Meet Sam and James, the Unsuspecting Villains of Netflix's 'Instant Hotel' — by Pippa Raga, Distractify, 11 January 2019
• Cult head, 71, molested girls, trial told — AAP, The Sydney Morning Herald, 20 July 2000
• 'Harem' deserts convicted guru — AAP, The Age, 4 August 2000
• 'Guru' jailed for child molestation — News24, 11 August 2000
• Polygamist guru faces new child sex charges — by Katie Lapthorne, The Courier Mail, 8 March 2003
• Ian Francis LOWE Death Notice — New Zealand Herald, 14 April 2012
• The Bachelor Cult Bombshell — Alison Petrovsky, A Current Affair, 8 August 2016

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Joy Kuo and her husband moved to Sydney from Taiwan in 2000, and the couple both began working for the University of Sydney Library the following year. They both studied for and gained their masters degrees, and enjoyed their work. By 2012 they had had a son together, and Joy found herself wanting to help humanity in some greater way. She was looking for something she could really dedicate herself to in her career.

Iphigenie Amoutzias moved to New Zealand from Germany in 1996. She completed postgraduate studies in her new home country, and had practised Buddhism for many years. By 2011 she had reached a point in her life where something seemed to be missing. She felt that the modern world was lacking in connection, that technology was driving people apart, and that she wanted to be surrounded with a greater sense of community.

Both women came across the same new age group at this point in their lives. They had no idea that years later they would find themselves broke, emotionally affected, and questioning all of their previous decisions to become involved.

Special Guest: Joy Kuo & Iphigenie Amoutzias.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• KF website
• Bad Vibrations – The implosion of a New Age cult — by Steve Kilgallon and Tony Wall, stuff.co.nz, July 2018
• NZ Cult List — Entry for KF
• KF Foundation webpage
• KF Chronicles — blog credited to Ananya Bhakt Niranjana
• Awakening with Joy — YouTube channel by Joy Kuo
• Joy’s Story — by Joy Kuo, via the Cult Information and Family Support (CIFS) website

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Grace J. Adams and Poia Alpha are two sisters from New Zealand, who joined David Koresh’s Branch Davidians in the 1980s along with their other sister, the younger Rebecca. Poia left the sect in early 1990, and Grace in late 1991. Rebecca remained with the group at the compound in Waco, Texas, and perished in the fire of April 1993. Grace and Poia have recently released their memoir, called ‘Hearken O Daughter’, and I caught up with them on a recent trip to Auckland.

Special Guest: Grace J. Adams and Poia Alpha.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Hearken O Daughter — by Grace J. Adams and Poia Alpha, 2018
• Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships — by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias, Bay Tree Publishing, 2006

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Laura left Outreach International when she was 32 years old, having been born into the sect in the late 1970s. Hear her story as she relates the experience of being a young woman in a highly patriarchal and controlling organisation, the difficult decision to leave, the trauma of starting her life from scratch, and the joy that she's found in this new life – a kind that most of us take for granted. You'll also hear from other ex-members about their experiences, and where the sect stands today.

Special Guest: Laura Sullivan.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Billy Graham in Australia, 1959 - Was it Revival? — by Dr. Stuart Piggin, Lucas: An Evangelical History Review, no. 6, Oct 1989
• Letters to the Editor — Vision Magazine, No. 9, May-June 1975
• Salaries for ministers rapped by church founder — by Rose Simpson, The Ottawa Journal, Wednesday July 25, 1979
• Outreach International website
• Tony Kostas' personal website
• Seek Ye First — by Tony Kostas, Outreach International, 1975
• The Ultimate Attainment — by Tony Kostas, Outreach Media, 1983
• Building with God — series by Tony Kostas, 1985
• Led Into Love — by Tony Kostas, 2016

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In May 2017, a sect that started in Melbourne, Australia, 50 years ago, and has been highly secretive over the last few decades, decided to change its closed-doors policy and go public with a website. Whilst up until now very little has been known about the group except by direct conversations with former believers, its members go to government schools, attend public universities, and work in everyday jobs. They could be your neighbour, your colleague, or even a friend, and you’d have no idea what’s really going on in their private lives.

CORRECTION: There is a mention of the Book of David in this episode – this was a slip of the tongue, it should be the Book of John.

Special Guest: Laura Sullivan.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Billy Graham in Australia, 1959 - Was it Revival? — by Dr. Stuart Piggin, Lucas: An Evangelical History Review, no. 6, Oct 1989
• Letters to the Editor — Vision Magazine, No. 9, May-June 1975
• Salaries for ministers rapped by church founder — by Rose Simpson, The Ottawa Journal, Wednesday July 25, 1979
• Outreach International website
• Seek Ye First — by Tony Kostas, Outreach International, 1975
• The Ultimate Attainment — by Tony Kostas, Outreach Media, 1983
• Building with God — series by Tony Kostas, 1985
• Led Into Love — by Tony Kostas, 2016

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In October of 2013, the British organisation Freedom Charity received a call on their hotline. The woman on the other end said that her housemate had been held captive in South London for 30 years.

At the time of this call, Katy Morgan-Davies was 30 years old, and the period of her imprisonment was her entire life. She, and the women she lived with, believed that an invisible machine called JACKIE could control household appliances, read their thoughts, and would incinerate them if they tried to escape the man they called ‘Comrade Bala’ – who was the covert leader of the world, and, in fact, God himself.

Full research sources listed here. You can support us on Patreon or Acast+, with a one-off donation, or grab some merch. Sarah Steel's debut book Do As I Say is available on audiobook now.

If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, contact Cult Information and Family Support in Australia, or the International Cultic Studies Association outside of Australia.

If you or someone you know is in crisis or needs support right now, please call Lifeline on 13 11 14 in Australia, or find your local crisis centre via the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

Links:

• Caged Bird — by Katy Morgan-Davies, Random House, 2018
• The Cult Next Door — BBC documentary directed by Vanessa Engle, 2017
• Aravindan Balakrishnan: the Maoist cult leader who used brutal violence and rape to strip women of their dignity — by Victoria Ward, The Telegraph, 4 December 2015
• Thirty Years in Captivity — by Simon Parkin, The New Yorker, 3 December 2016
• The Classification and Dynamics of Sectarian Forms of Organisation: Grid/Group Perspectives on the Far-Left in Britain — by Stephen Frank Rayner, PhD thesis for University College London, 1979
• Maoist cult follower: “I think he’s being framed” — Channel 4 News segment with Josephine Herivel, 4 December 2015
• The radical ideological background of 'slave women' suspects — by Jake Wallis Simons, The Telegraph, 24 November 2013

Subscribe and support the production of this independent podcast, and you can access early + ad-free episodes at https://plus.acast.com/s/lets-talk-about-sects.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.