Orchardist Ben Applegate on cold climate orchard care

Ben is the Orchard Manager at Eden Specialty Cider based in northern Vermont and shares his insight on cold climate apple varieties and orchard tips. This chat took place at Eden's orchards based in what is known as the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont in the town of West Charleston.

Ben Applegate

There are 50 Apple varieties at the Eden orchard. Here is a list of just some of the apples discussed in this episode:

• Newton Pippin
• Liberty
• Stembridge Cluster
• Rubinette
• Northern Spy
• Trembletts Bitter

Ben discusses which varieties work well in a cold climate, while recommending that as the temperatures continue to rise both in Vermont and globally, he advises to plant trial apples for the changes ahead.

Tips for new orchardists

• Why you should do a Soil test before planting and what to do with that knowledge
• Why pruning too early can offset young trees
• Which apple tree damaging insects to worry about

In this Cider Chat episode:

• We learn about the challenges faced by the young apple trees, such as sun scald and fluctuating temperatures
• Scythe and Biological Mowing
• How climate change is affecting traditional production of Ice Cider, which is made by freezing apple juice on the coldest days of the year to freeze the water and then ferment the pure apple juice into what is known as Ice Cider.
• How acidity of the soil directly affects the acidity of the apples
• Selection of apple varieties and rootstock is crucial
• Dwarf tree management
• Incorporating composted teas for apple trees
• The impact of author Micheal Phillips' work

Contact for Ben Applegate

Website:http://edenciders.com

email:mailto:[email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023 Registration is open!

Cider and Spontaneous Fermentation

The wild "ambient" yeast found on apples, in the air, on cider presses can all contribute to a spontaneous fermentation within the cider must, which is the juice that has been freshly pressed from a fruit such as apples or grapes and is fermenting. In this episode we hear from Hugues Guichard, who works at the Institut Français des Productions Cidricoles a research institute focusing on cider based in Normandy, France.

Hugues presented this lecture at CiderCon 2023, which is hosted by the American Cider Association.

Hugues Guichard at CiderCon 2023

Allowing a cider to go through a full spontaneous fermentation successfully is a growing trend within the industry as consumer continue to seek "natural" ciders. Hugues provides a complete overview of the French cider industry and the science behind spontaneous ferments.

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In this lecture

• Part I: French Cider Industry and IFPC
• Part II: French Cider ProcessingCider Apples and Harvest

  • Possible contamination by spoiling microorganisms

• Clarification
• Fermentation
• Maturation
• Bottling
• Conclusion

Yeast mentioned in this presentation

• Hanseniaspora is a genus of yeasts, when there is no sulphites in the must

• Mechnikowia pulcherrima (Mp)

  • On apple and in must (often high population)

  • no development in anaerobioses

• Hanseniaspora valbyensys (Hv) -apiculate yeast

  • On apple and in must, growth in must

  • 1 to 2 weeks then decreases

  • Sensibility to SO2

• Saccharomyces uvarum (Su): fermentative yeast

Bacterias and yeasts in ciders that can create off flavors

• Acetic acid bacteria (Acetobacter). Often described at Volatile Acidity (VA) which lends a vinegary taste to the cider

• Zymomonas mobilis (bacteria). off flavors such as rotten banana, vegetal aromas. There may be a haze formation, high pressure in bottles, and excessive foaming

• Secundilactobacillus collinoïdes - lactic acid spoilage

• Brettanomyces anomala - Volatile phenol

Begin with cidermaking best practices

As expected best practices for all fermentation including a spontaneous fermentation require

• Clean Fruit
• Hygiene in the cidery
• Temperature control

Contact for Hugues Guichard

• email:mailto:[email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023
• Nordic International Cider Competition - Deadline for sending entries August 7th,
  • The NICA competition takes place on September 6-9, in Riga, Latvia

Small, Medium and Large Scale options for Mechanical Harvesting of Apples

Cornell University Associate Professor of Horticulture Gregory Peck Ph.D and Angry Orchard Head Cidermaker Joe Gaynor provide an in depth study of mechanical tools for orchards of all sizes.

The presentation took place at CiderCon2023.

No need to be an orchardist to enjoy this topic on mechanical harvesting of apples. Some of these same tools presented are also used in vineyards for harvesting grapes. Particularly interesting for cider fans and makers alike, is the debunking the myth that apples that fall on the ground can't be used to make cider. Dr Peck provides a great overview on this topic.

Topics in the Mechanical Harvesting Presentation

• Comparison of Cider Economies of New York, US and UK
• Bush Cider Orchards - wide row spacing for mechanical harvesting
• Cumulative Net Present Value (NPV) using Outsourced Machine Harvesting (~$300/acre)
• Is it Profitable to Grow Cider Apples in NY?
• The cost of hand picking - Labor in America
• Cumulative NPV at Various Returns using Hand or Machine Harvesting
• Tree-row sweeping and picking up
• Harvesting off the ground
• How mechanical harvesting impacts the fruit
• Options for Small, Medium and Large scale operations
• Conclusions of this study

Contact info for Gregory Peck

• eMail:[email protected]
• Listen to an early Episode 198: Becoming a Pommologist with Dr. Peck

Mentions in this Chat

• Scott Farm Go Fund Me for apple lost due to 2023 Frost
• New York Apple Camp July 28th-30th, 2023

Antoine Marois is Tantalizing the Taste Buds of Cider Fans

On a sloping hill on the east side of the picturesque village of Cambremer sits Domaine Marois. The lead up to the home is formidable with a long drive that leads to the barrel room and production facility for the Domaine. Behind the home is a majestic oak tree said to be over 300 years old.

Antoine Marois in the barrel room at the Domaine

It is here that Antoine and wife Marie Marois reside. Marie is a cider maker in her own right having taken the head cider maker position at Domaine Dupont.

The grand house at Domaine Marois

In this Chat

• Where is Domaine Marois located – here we talk about the area.
  • – what to expect when visiting
• Antoine journey to become a cidermaker after working first with wine.
  • • What Antoine bring to cider that he learned from wine.
• Why haute tige (standard size) trees are important.
• How an orchard benefits from cows in the orchard
• Types of Cider Styles at Domaine Marois.
  • Co-ferments
  • Barrels toasted with apple juice
  • wild yeast and cultured yeaast
    • What to expect in the glass
• Visiting Domaine Marois
• Future plans for Domaine Marois

300+ year old oak tree at Domaine Marois

Contact info for Domaine Marois

• Website:https://www.domaine-am.com/
• Visit this Domaine Marois by appointment only

The moped in the barrel room at Domaine Marois

Mentions in this Chat

• International Cider and Perry Competition - Cider Museum | Herefordshire - see the list of winners here
• Recent episodes with UK cider maker Tom Oliver
  • Ep 361 Is SO2 Necessary for Cider Making?
  • Ep 366 Acclaimed Cider with Minimal Intervention | Tom Oliver
• Got a Question about yeast and cidermaking? Send in your questions to [email protected] for the upcoming episode with Fermentis

Discover Kordick Family Farm and Baba Yaga

Hear from Dorsey and daughter Brittany, the mother and daughter team at Korkdick Family Farm with Baba Yaga as their guide. Dorsey is a long time apple fan and even attended Peter Mitchell's cidermaking courses in the UK early on making her one of the first American's to take the UK course. Brittany studied agriculture and the two together make a dynamic team. Their main crop is apples and they apply holistic orchard practices.

Illustration for story of Kordick Family Farm called; Baba Yaga's Apples of Eternal Youth

In this Chat

• The story behind Kordick Farm
  • Baba Yaga inspiration
• How it works for a mother and daughter team – do you have help?
• The orchard,
  • number of apple varieties and pear (southern apple varieties?)

Garlic growing between Apple Trees on top of the hay mulch

• • root stock that works.
  • orchard practices
    • What do you no longer do and what is working (why) in our warming climate
    • Root stock used for that climate

The Kordicks practice intercropping between apple trees

• • Who is your market
  • What you sell
  • Kordicks Esty story
• Advice for new orchardist and women in particular who are interested in following a similar path.

Baba Yaga Renditions designed by Brittany Kordick

Contact info for the Kordick Family Farm

Website:https://www.kordickfamilyfarm.com/

Etsy Store:https://www.etsy.com/shop/KordickFamilyFarm?ref=shop_sugg

Mentioned in this Chat

• 312: Some Angels are Dressed Like Bears | Michael Phillips 1957-2022

Spy Novels Step Aside for an Apple of a Tale

The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As far as apples go it is a winner for so many reasons, yet no one knows why it is named Northern Spy. there are certainly many hyposthesis on the subject. In episode 226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider reads a fictional essay on the topic (do listen as it is grand).

Kerry Anne Wilkins

In this episode we hear from Apple Sleuth or self proclaimed "Malus Absurdum" Kerry Anne Wilkins who is on the trail of the Northern Spy. Professionally Kerry works as a hospice nurse, but her love of apples and set her on a journey to find the story behind the naming of the Northern Spy.

Herman Chapin is responsible for propagating the Northern Spy

In this Chat

• Meeting the John Bunkers, a premier Apple Detective
• What we know so far about the Northern Spy's history
• Apple Sleuthing tips
  • Libraries
  • Oral History
  • Newspaper
  • Cemeteries
  • Land maps
• Tracking the Northern Spy to East Bloomfield, New York
• A Martha Steward faux pas that needed to be corrected
• The Northern Spy marker in East Bloomfield
• Herman Chapin and the Chapin family connection to the Northern Spy

] East Bloomfield road marker reads:

The original Northern Spy Apple Tree Stood about 14 Rods south of this spot in a seedling orchard.
Planted by Herman Chapin about 1800
The Early Joe and Melon Apple also originated in this orchard.

The quest continues

Kerry is still on the quest to discover the history of the Northern Spy and hopefully the reason why this apple was named as such. If you have info please send it along her way. Recipes, book mentions, oral tales are all welcomed.

Contact info for Kerry Anne Wilkins

email:[email protected]

Want Kerry's postal address to send a letter? Contact [email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• Listen to episode 290 with Tattiebolge CiderWorks Acme, Pennsylvania - as mentioned in this episode it is building out!
• Canuck Cider Cup winners for 2023
• Who is John Bunker America's Apple Detective? There are many episodes with John feature. Begin with this one https://ciderchat.com/028-john-bunker-apple-identification/ and then google Cider Chat John Bunker for more from this American treasure of a man!
• Bottles on My Desk - Listen to the latest episode at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel via playlist "bottles on my desk"

Spy Novels Step Aside for an Apple of a Tale

The Northern Spy is a delightful apple used both for baking and cidermaking! At one time it was a major export commodity due to its lack of bruising when packed in barrels. As far as apples go it is a winner for so many reasons, yet no one knows why it is named Northern Spy. there are certainly many hyposthesis on the subject. In episode 226: Northern Spy and the Underground Railroad Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider reads a fictional essay on the topic (do listen as it is grand).

Kerry Anne Wilkins

In this episode we hear from Apple Sleuth or self proclaimed "Malus Absurdum" Kerry Anne Wilkins who is on the trail of the Northern Spy. Professionally Kerry works as a hospice nurse, but her love of apples and set her on a journey to find the story behind the naming of the Northern Spy.

Herman Chapin is responsible for propagating the Northern Spy

In this Chat

• Meeting the John Bunkers, a premier Apple Detective
• What we know so far about the Northern Spy's history
• Apple Sleuthing tips
  • Libraries
  • Oral History
  • Newspaper
  • Cemeteries
  • Land maps
• Tracking the Northern Spy to East Bloomfield, New York
• A Martha Steward faux pas that needed to be corrected
• The Northern Spy marker in East Bloomfield
• Herman Chapin and the Chapin family connection to the Northern Spy

] East Bloomfield road marker reads:

The original Northern Spy Apple Tree Stood about 14 Rods south of this spot in a seedling orchard.
Planted by Herman Chapin about 1800
The Early Joe and Melon Apple also originated in this orchard.

The quest continues

Kerry is still on the quest to discover the history of the Northern Spy and hopefully the reason why this apple was named as such. If you have info please send it along her way. Recipes, book mentions, oral tales are all welcomed.

Contact info for Kerry Anne Wilkins

email:[email protected]

Want Kerry's postal address to send a letter? Contact [email protected]

Mentions in this Chat

• Listen to episode 290 with Tattiebolge CiderWorks Acme, Pennsylvania - as mentioned in this episode it is building out!
• Canuck Cider Cup winners for 2023
• Who is John Bunker America's Apple Detective? There are many episodes with John feature. Begin with this one https://ciderchat.com/028-john-bunker-apple-identification/ and then google Cider Chat John Bunker for more from this American treasure of a man!
• Bottles on My Desk - Listen to the latest episode at the Cider Chat YouTube Channel via playlist "bottles on my desk"

Weed, to Jail, and Freed by Cider

There are so many title options for this episode, that all center around time spent in jail for one burgeoning cidermaker. "Busted Weed Grower Saved by Cider", was one that almost made the cut. But this podcaster wanted to find something uplifting for Sean McFarland who was a cannabis grower ,who did get busted and was from all accounts able to survive prison life due to support from his family and a new found passion for all things cider. This tale has all the predicable twists and turns one would expect when a big weed grower ends up in jail, but what makes this story completely unique is Sean himself.

As Sean sees it, if you are satisfied with your life as it is now why regret what got you there. His optimism plays a lead role in his narrative and that alone is worth a listen.

Sean and his then future wife who rekindled a childhood friendship while he was in jail

In this Chat

• Sean's journery from army brat to horticulture studies, squash growing and then cannabis
• Behind the scene of a mega pot bust
• Federal laws and Jail terms for cannabis growers
• Preparing for prison life
• Family matters
• Finding love while in prison
• Finding cider
• No regrets
• Minnesota law for felons who want to start a cidery

Sean and family in legally grown hemp[/caption]

Contact for Blackshire Farm Cider

Website: https://www.blackshirefarms.com/

] Sean working old family cider mill that has been rigged with salvaged parts

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions [email protected] fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A withFermentis- Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe toeCiderNews

Not only is the cider acclaimed, so too is the Maker

Tom Oliver is just as acclaimed as his cider which makes Oliver's Cider and Perry Co. a global hit on two fronts. He is affable, engaging and knows his way around social media likely due to his work with the Scottish Rock Rock Band, The Proclaimers. Cidermakers are not well known for reposting news stories about themselves and their product, but Tom is a master of this one simple act that keeps Oliver's in the news and endears him to media. That singular step alone is just one of many giveaways that Tom provides to the slow moving cider industry.

This topic is key for makers looking to up level their online presence, but it was not the topic of conversation in this episode. Instead Ria and Tom caught up after the world shut down for the past 2 plus years at CiderCon 2023 held in Chicago.

In this chat

• How minimal intervention is key for Oliver's Cider and Perry
• What is Farmhouse cider
  • Spontaneously fermented - wild yeast
  • Tannic cider and Perry Pears

At Oliver's there is no measuring of sugar or fiddling with the cider. In fact, Tom can be heard in most interviews saying "Don't fiddle with cider."

What's new for this acclaimed makers and cidery?

• More c0-ferments and collaborations!
• Bâtonnage
  • This is a technique used by winemakers, where the lees (yeast cells) are stirred into solution.
  • • Nano proteins are the biggest benefit of Bâtonnage
      
      • They release into the cider providing a perception of sweetness and body with out the sugar
    • Need at least 9 months to a year to get the nano proteins

    There are short term benefits.

    1. Yeast produces less carbon dioxide and bubbles.
       
       • They slow down after the first primary ferment.
       • Fermentation may have stopped but there is still sugar left.
    2. Lees absorb off aromas, except for H2S rotting egg smell.
    3. Bâtonnage helps to maintain a reductive state.
       
       • Full reduction - rotting smell is a type of reduction. Which helps protect the cider from oxidization and protect the flavor components.

Find out more about Bâtonnage by going to Episode 233: Ask Ryan Quarantine Quad Series where Ryan Monkman of Fieldbird Cider in Prince Edward County Canada provides an in depth overview of Bâtonnage and Maderisation (where the barrels are cooked).

Contact info for Oliver's Cider and Perry Company

• Website: https://www.oliversciderandperry.co.uk/

Mentions in this chat

• Send your questions to [email protected] about fermentation and yeast for an upcoming Q&A withFermentis- Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe toeCiderNews

Is Cider Truly Indescribable?

There isn't one definitive language or lexicon for cider, which adds to its indescribable mystique. The ongoing debate around what cider is or isn't or should be doesn't help. It certainly feels like a present day problem defining cider, but is it? Or has this debate been going on for years?

To help us get to the root of this indescribable dilemma, we are featuring "A Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider" as presented by Richie Brady at CiderCon 2023, an annual trade conference hosted by the American Cider Association. This is Richie's second appearance on Cider Chat. We first heard about his research on the lexicon of cider in Episode 286: A Living Language of Cider.

Richie provides a road map, complete with historical references and present day trends that helps us sort through this indescribable mess!

Richie Brady presenting at CiderCon 2023

In this indescribable Chat

• Richie Brady's background
• Difficulties in describing taste: Language
• Proposed Systematic Approach to Tasting Cider
• Considering Cider's Lexicon

Mentions in this Chat

• @Sabatinis_Bottleshop - has a tasting room and served Domain Dupont Pommeau
• April 28th Kickoff Party - EsoTerra Ciderworks
• Fermentis - Yeast and Fermentation Solutions for Cidermakers
• Subscribe toeCiderNews

Haven't downloaded this episode yet? Here it is again for your listening pleasure.