The Two Marketeers Podcast

In April 2024, Contagious sent out its weekly newsletter, the 'Contagious Edit: Your Weekly Dose of Contagious Thinking,' which immediately caught the eye of The Two Marketeers as it discussedthe virtues of churning stuff out.

The newsletter states, "In his 2018 book, Atomic Habits, James Clear tells a story about a photography teacher that holds a useful lesson for creative types.

Clear had come by the story in another book, called Art & Fear, which was published in 1985. The authors of that work had — for not especially interesting reasons — obscured the truth of the tale by omitting the name of the teacher in question and changing the locale to a ceramics class. But after Clear got in touch with them — and then spoke with some of the teacher’s former students — he learned the facts behind the fable, and this is apparently how it really happened.

Jerry Uelsmann was a successful artist who taught a film photography class at the University of Florida. On the first day of class one year, Uelsmann divided his students into two groups. He told the first group that they would be the ‘quantity’ group, and he would grade them on how many photos they submitted by the end of term. The other group, he said, was the ‘quality’ group, and they only had to produce one photograph all semester, but it had to be near-perfect to earn an A.

When it came time for Uelsmann to review his students’ photographs, he saw that the best compositions almost all came from the quantity group. While the students in the quality group had fussed over one or a few pictures, the quantity group were clicking away like an arthritic ankle in winter, and apparently became better photographers for it.

Former psychology professor Dean Keith Simonton spent decades studying human greatness in art and science, and he also found that, when it comes to creative endeavours, there is great value in volume.

After researching the lives of more than 2,000 eminent scientists, Simonton told the LA Times in 1988 that the single most important quality these great thinkers shared was probably ‘the willingness to produce a tremendous amount of work — often on seemingly trivial or useless projects — without fear of failure.’

In 1997 Simonton published a paper that articulated this finding as the ‘equal-odds rule’, which states that ‘the relationship between the number of hits (ie, creative successes) and the total number of works produced in a given time period is positive, linear, stochastic, and stable.’

The relationship between quality and quantity is not written in stone. A 2008 paper by Aaron Kozbelt, for example, found that classical composers produced their greatest concentration of hit songs around five years after their productivity peak, which suggests things like experience and expertise have a role to play. And common sense would suggest that you have to pay at least some attention to the quality of your ideas and compositions to eventually hit paydirt.

Still, it’s a fairly reliable rule of thumb that you need to have a lot of ideas to have great ones."

Join The Two Marketeers in this episode as they debate the quality vs. quantity of ideas and how to become a master of more. Happy listening!

Welcome to a less-than-brief conversation all about the brief! As creative strategy people in the marketing and advertising industry, The Two Marketeers co-hosts, Sean Patrick and Lindsay Waugh, are obsessed with the brief. And rightfully so! The brief is the kick-off to brilliant (and, unfortunately, mediocre) work. But, it should NOT be the beginning of the work being done. In this episode, Sean and Lindsay discuss and debate the role of the brief, all that has to go into creating one, and what to do in the absence of a great one, or let's be real, one at all.

Happy listening, Marketeers! Then, get out there and craft better briefs.

For reference:

MarketingWeek, "Mark Ritson: The idea that marketers need to be creative is a load of baloney, we’re useless at it."

Watch out, The Two Marketeers are fired up! Co-hosts Sean Patrick and Lindsay Waugh take this episode to unpack a controversial article published in CMSWire with the headline, "AI Will Replace 95% of Creative Marketing Work". And as you may imagine, Sean and Lindsay call BS. The article, linked below, starts by stating, "Goodbye, marketing. Hello, AI. Or AGI. OK, that's totally dramatic. But it's kinda what a top executive in the generative AI space says. Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, the creator of ChatGPT, says in the new book, "Our AI Journey" that AI will mean that 95% of what marketers use agencies, strategists, and creative professionals for today will easily, nearly instantly and at almost no cost be handled by the AI — and the AI will likely be able to test the creative against real or synthetic customer focus groups for predicting results and optimizing. Again, all free, instant, and nearly perfect. Images, videos, campaign ideas? No problem." As with any new technology birthed into the world, it begins with collective excitement and intrigue, quickly followed by the fear that, once again, technology is set to take over the world and make us all unemployable. As Lindsay so eloquently states, bologna. Tune into this lively discussion with The Two Marketeers as they debate and discuss the role of AI, what it is good for and what human elements it cannot replace-at least today. For reference:

CMSWire > "Sam Altman: AI Will Replace 95% of Creative Marketing Work"

In this episode of The Two Marketeers, co-hosts Sean Patrick and Lindsay Waugh dive into a recent article from Ad Age that sheds light on a critical shift in the advertising industry. Agencies are increasingly pressured to sell their cookie-cutter proprietary processes over their people, talent and creative chops. Sean and Lindsay unpack the why behind this trend and its implications, discussing its impact on agency culture, creativity, and client relationships.

Sean and Lindsay offer insightful advice to agencies facing this challenge, suggesting that while having a process to sell is important, it's crucial to look at the bigger picture. They strongly (ha!) advocate for agencies to change the narrative about what best-in-class agency talent looks like. Instead of focusing solely on processes, agencies should prioritize getting the right people (as full-time or contract resources) and creative capabilities, emphasizing the collective value they bring to clients beyond a one-page process.

Join Sean and Lindsay as they explore how agencies can adapt to this changing landscape, redefine their value and how they make choices (and money!) for the future of the ad industry.

For reference:

Ad Age, "Why Agencies are Obsessed with Pitching on Process Instead of Talent"

On this topic, The Two Marketeers cannot remain silent any longer! That's right; the world has reached a 'tipping point' where tip culture is spiralling out of control. Across North America, no matter what businesses you patronize, you'll likely be prompted to offer a tip. However, the rapidly changing tipping culture raises questions about its fairness and effectiveness.

As Forbes states, "A recent survey by Bankrate found that roughly 66% of Americans have a negative view of tipping. Around 30% of respondents think that tipping culture is "out of control," with more companies encouraging customers to tip at their counters than ever before. Patrons find the pre-entered tip screens aggravating (32%) and think businesses should pay their employees more rather than rely on gratuity (41%)."

Sean and Lindsay, co-hosts of The Two Marketeers Podcast, are taking a step back and putting their personal opinions aside in this episode (ya, right!) to examine tip culture from a brand experience design perspective. They candidly discuss consumer sentiment around tipping and the desired consumer takeaway from the experience, especially in the 'moment of truth'—the last mile of the consumer journey.

Listen and weigh in on Linkedin, Marketeers. This is going to be a fun one!

For reference:

Forbes, "Tipflation: Americans Think Tipping Culture Is ‘Out Of Control’ And Workers Should Be Paid More"

Welcome back, Marketeers, to the second part of a two-part episode where co-hosts Sean Patrick and Lindsay Waugh watch and discuss a documentary titled, 'Kill Your Darlings'. Kill Your Darlings is a documentary film about the world of modern advertising and the creative talent defining it. The film investigates and examines this 150-year-old industry through the eyes of a young female creative and features interviews with advertising legends, creative marketers and new talent in the creative industry.

Picking up where they left off in part one, Sean and Lindsay share their points of view on flaws in the current state of the marketing and advertising industry and discuss ways of fixing them. Happy listening, Marketeers!

For reference: Watch 'Kill Your Darlings' on YouTube

Hello Marketeers! Welcome to the first of a two-part episode where The Two Marketeers podcast co-hosts Sean Patrick and Lindsay Waugh watch and discuss a documentary titled, 'Kill Your Darlings'.

Kill Your Darlings is a documentary film about the world of modern advertising and the creative talent defining it. The film investigates and examines this 150-year-old industry through the eyes of a young female creative and features interviews with advertising legends, creative marketers and new talent in the creative industry.

In true Two Marketeers fashion, Sean and Lindsay have a lively conversation about the current state of the advertising industry and their roles within it. Have a listen and enjoy!

For reference: Watch 'Kill Your Darlings' on YouTube

2024... we're bringing new material, bringing new material. Or is Lindsay still as obsessed with granola bars as always!?! Tune in to find out!

This episode of The Two Marketeers Podcast kicks off with Lindsay bringing forward a stat from Amazon that the majority of searches within the platform are product, no brand, first. Which begs the question of how brands influence consumers in the moment of purchase and beyond? That fundamental question then sends Sean and Lindsay back down the brand rabbit hole to debate and discuss the role of brands in today's world and how brands can deliver exceptional consumer experiences when much of the experience appears to be out of their control. Sean raises an even more critical question: what happens when the brand experience goes awry?

Happy listening, Marketeers!

Welcome to part 2 of the episode, "When Creative Becomes Everyone's Job," where Aleena Mazhar Kuzma, SVP and Managing Director of FUSECreate, joins co-hosts Sean and Lindsay. Part 2 picks up where part 1 left off, with Aleena diving into what it takes to rebrand and launch the new positioning of an agency during the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.

This episode closes out with Lindsay's burning question. Listen to discover what she was dying to pick Aleena's brain about. Sneak peek, it has to do with the industry obsession, as well as Lindsay's personal obsession, with working with independent agencies. Happy listening!

The Two Marketeers are kicking off 2024 with a bang and an exceptional guest! In this episode, Aleena Mazhar Kuzma joins co-hosts Sean and Lindsay. Aleena has grown up in the ever-evolving and dynamic advertising and marketing business and now leads FUSE Create, an independent creative agency in Toronto. Her passion for the business surrounds creative problem-solving and working with incredibly smart and talented people, partners and clients. As SVP and Managing Director, Aleena works closely with teams to create work that Turns Heads, fills them with pride, and makes an impact for the brands she works with.

Through the years, Aleena has worked on campaigns that break the status quo for brands like CIBC, Ricola, Hilton, Proximo Spirits, Maple Leaf Foods, and many others. She also sits on the board of People of Colour in Advertising and Marketing (POCAM), working to make the marketing industry a more inclusive space for people of colour.

This conversation is so rich that The Two Marketeers have broken it down into two episodes. Welcome to part one of this two-part episode titled "When Creative Becomes Everyone's Job." Happy listening!