Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

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Lauryn Isford is a product growth leader and practitioner, who most recently led Growth at Airtable, and is about to start something new 🤫. In today’s episode, we get into the many tactics Lauryn has learned about optimizing onboarding flows. Lauryn describes how overhauling Airtable’s onboarding led to a 20% increase in activation rate, the company’s unique segmentation process, and why North Star metrics are so vital. Lauryn also shares her framework for a PLG growth funnel, and how to use a reverse trial to leverage the benefits of both freemium products and trials. If you’re looking to find growth opportunities within your funnel, this episode is for you.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/mastering-onboarding-lauryn-isford-head-of-growth-at-airtable/#transcript

Where to find Lauryn Isford:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurynisford

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurynisford/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-Solve-Problems-Test-Ideas/dp/1442397683

• Blue Bottle coffee: https://bluebottlecoffee.com/

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• How to determine your activation metric: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-determine-your-activation

• Elena Verna on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/elena-verna-on-how-b2b-growth-is-changing-product-led-growth-product-led-sales-why-you-should-go-freemium-not-trial-what-features-to-make-free-and-much-more/

• The Ride of a Lifetime: Lessons Learned from 15 Years as CEO of the Walt Disney Company: https://www.amazon.com/Ride-Lifetime-Lessons-Learned-Company/dp/0399592091/

• Rocket Men: The Daring Odyssey of Apollo 8 and the Astronauts Who Made Man’s First Journey to the Moon: https://www.amazon.com/Rocket-Men-Odyssey-Astronauts-Journey/dp/081298871X

• Fifth & Mission podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/fifth-mission/id1457274965

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Belfast: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt12789558/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Miro: https://miro.com/

• Zoelle Egner on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/what-pr-is-and-isnt-good-for-according-to-zoelle-egner-head-of-marketing-and-growth-at-box/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Lauryn’s background

(03:48) Lauryn’s spicy take on experimentation

(06:44) Why doing the right thing for customers should be the ultimate goal

(08:54) How Airtable rolled out Airtable Forms with A/B testing

(11:38) The importance of onboarding

(13:15) Airtable’s onboarding revamp and how it increased activation by 20%

(16:57) How Airtable’s guided onboarding wizard improved the user experience

(18:00) Why reducing reliance on tooltips can be a good idea for complicated products

(20:06) The importance of meeting users where they are

(22:52) How Airtable segmented users by learning styles

(24:10) Airtable’s activation metrics

(27:22) How the week-four multi-user collaboration metric was operationalized

(30:45) Other metrics Airtable used

(34:34) When Airtable changed their North Star metric 

(36:26) How much time to give a North Star metric before pivoting

(38:05) Trials vs. freemium and what a reverse trial is

(42:51) How to have self-serve options when you’re not fully self-serve

(46:04) Onboarding experiences that aren’t very helpful

(47:31) How to help users understand features

(48:42) Why user education is more important than pushing premium features

(50:03) The role of guardrail metrics 

(51:40) Lauryn’s PLG growth funnel framework

(54:26) How Lauryn’s framework helps teams communicate more clearly

(55:57) How Lauryn structured the growth team

(57:53) B2B growth as an emerging space 

(1:00:18) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Brought to you by OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny | Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Coda—Meet the evolution of docs: https://coda.io/lenny

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Keith Yandell started at DoorDash as Chief Legal Officer and during his tenure has also led the HR, Customer Support, Marketing, and now Corporate Development teams. In today’s episode, we talk about leadership, and how to lead with empathy. We dig into DoorDash’s unique culture and touch on the WeDash program, which requires every employee to complete four deliveries a year in order to better understand the customer experience. Keith shares his “How to Work with Keith” document and discusses the importance of openness in the workplace. He also gives some tips for founders on hiring, engaging with legal, and how to make big decisions when teams are competing for resources.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/leading-with-empathy-keith-yandell-doordash-uber/#transcript

Where to find Keith Yandell:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/kdyandell

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-yandell-2a947432/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Gokul Rajaram on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/gokul-rajaram-on-designing-your-product-development-process-when-and-how-to-hire-your-first-pm-a-playbook-for-hiring-leaders-getting-ahead-in-you-career-how-to-get-started-angel-investing-more/

• Ryan Sokol on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryan-sokol-00b2333/

• Tony Xu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/xutony/

• About WeDash: https://doordash.news/culture/wedash-doordash-employee-program-how-does-it-work/

•  Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484

•  How to be successful working with Keith doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/12yTpBZFab6SPAruSpSD6CB_qLOu5L8kpQ4CCmX9pDx4/edit?mode=html

• Kofi Amoo-Gottfried on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kofi-amoo-gottfried-3802bb3/

• Tia Sherringham on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tiasherringham/

• Amp It Up: Leading for Hypergrowth by Raising Expectations, Increasing Urgency, and Elevating Intensity: https://www.amazon.com/Amp-Unlocking-Hypergrowth-Expectations-Intensity/dp/1119836115

• Ted Lasso’s quote on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TedLasso/status/1426932132417576967

• Rajat Shroff on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rajatshroff/

• Micah Moreau on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/micahmoreau/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Keith’s background

(03:41) The time Keith asked a potential hire if he was an a*****e

(06:39) DoorDash culture

(08:40) The WeDash program

(13:16) How Keith was able to lead so many different teams at DoorDash

(16:08) Hiring the best experts and then getting out of their way

(18:21) The “How to Work with Keith” document

(21:52) How and why Keith helps his employees land new jobs

(27:22) How he leverages empathy to unify board members

(29:26) The importance of assigning a decision maker and a time horizon for the decision

(31:15) One-on-ones with Keith, and the T3 B3 framework from Uber

(33:12) How to encourage constructive criticism from employees

(34:49) What it’s like to lead in tough times and why it can actually make your org stronger

(37:42) How creating urgency compounds gains

(39:11) IPO day at DoorDash

(40:20) The characteristics of top founders

(41:33) How the pandemic impacted DoorDash

(44:40) Advice for new parents that is applicable in business 

(45:24) The difficulty of gaining funding

(46:58) Advice for founders struggling with fundraising

(48:02) How Keith developed a strong relationship with the VP of Product and Design

(50:27) Building an effective BD team within a product company

(52:36) How to engage with legal teams

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Brought to you by Amplitude—Build better products: https://amplitude.com/ | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/ | Pando—Always-on employee progression: https://www.pando.com/lenny

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Marily is a computer scientist and an AI Product Leader currently working for Meta’s reality labs, and previously at Google for 8 years. In 2014 she completed a PhD in Machine Learning. She is also an Executive Fellow at Harvard Business School and she has taught numerous courses, actively teaching AI Product Management on Maven and at Harvard. Marily joins us in today's episode to shed light on the role of AI in product management. She shares her insights on how AI is empowering her work, and why she believes that every Product Manager will be an AI Product Manager in the future. We also discuss why PM’s should learn a bit of coding, where they can learn it, and best practices for working with data scientists. Marily shares some insight into building her AI Product Management course and also why she full-heartedly believes you should also create your own course.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/ai-and-product-management-marily-nika-meta-google/#transcript

Where to find Marily Nika:

• Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/marilynika

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marilynika/

• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/MarilyNikaPM

• Website: https://bio.link/marilynika

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• The Download newsletter: https://www.technologyreview.com/topic/download-newsletter/

• TLDR newsletter: https://tldr.tech/

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/auth/login

• MidJourney: https://midjourney.com/home/

• Whisper: https://whisper.ai/

• Machine Learning Specialization course: https://www.coursera.org/specializations/machine-learning-introduction

• Career Foundry: https://careerfoundry.com/

• Coding Dojo: https://www.codingdojo.com/

• Building AI Products—For Current & Aspiring Product Managers course on Maven: https://maven.com/marily-nika/technical-product-management

• arXiv: https://arxiv.org/

• Marginal Revolution blog: https://marginalrevolution.com/

• Automl: https://cloud.google.com/automl

• Inspired: How to Create Tech Products Customers Love: https://www.amazon.com/INSPIRED-Create-Tech-Products-Customers/dp/1119387507

• You Look Like a Thing and I Love You: How Artificial Intelligence Works and Why It’s Making the World a Weirder Place: https://www.amazon.com/You-Look-Like-Thing-Love/dp/0316525227

• The Adventures of Women in Tech Workbook: A Life-Tested Guide to Building Your Career: https://www.amazon.com/Adventures-Women-Tech-Workbook/dp/1646871022

• Boz to the Future podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boz-to-the-future/id1574002430

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Lensa: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lensa-ai-photo-video-editor/id1436732536

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Marily’s background

(03:20) How Marily stays informed about the latest developments in AI

(04:46) What is overhyped and underhyped in AI right now

(05:59) How Marily uses ChatGPT for work

(08:25) Why product managers will be AI product managers in the future

(11:16) How to get started using AI

(14:12) When not to use AI

(15:47) How much data do you need for AI to work properly?

(17:01) When should companies develop their own AI tools?

(18:35) What an AI model is and how it is trained

(21:25) How Google demonstrated the ability of AI to translate a conversation in real time

(23:02) Why AI will not replace PMs

(23:48) A case for learning to code

(26:21) Where to learn to code

(27:40) How to become a strong AI PM

(29:25) Challenges that AI PMs face

(31:16) Getting leadership on board with investing in AI

(33:10) How PMs will work with data scientists and AI

(35:29) Marily’s AI course

(39:12) AutoML and how a renewable-energy company used it to improve its turbine maintenance procedure

(40:31) How Marily built her course and the modifications she has made

(42:53) Why you should create your own course

(44:08) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Brought to you by Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny | Notion—One workspace. Every team: https://www.notion.com/lennyspod | Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/

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Eeke de Milliano is the Head of Product at Retool and a former product lead at Stripe. In this episode, we discuss how any team can become an innovation machine. We talk about how a culture of writing led to a team of rigorous thinkers at Stripe. We cover tactics to breed innovative teams that you can replicate at your own company: From embracing retrospectives to creating systems that give individuals the "permission to think big". Eeke shares her framework for prioritizing resources between core products, strategic initiatives, and big bets, and how it helped Retool launch three new products in a year. She also gives a comprehensive overview of the right level of process for companies of different sizes, and how to build a talent portfolio.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-foster-innovation-and-big-thinking-eeke-de-milliano-retool-stripe/#transcript.

Where to find Eeke de Milliano:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/eekedm

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eeke-de-milliano-3b05a629/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Snir Kodesh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/snirkodesh/

• Stripe: https://stripe.com/

• Stripe’s operating principles: https://stripe.com/jobs/culture

• Retool: https://retool.com/

• Brian Krausz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bkrausz/

• Retool Workflows: https://retool.com/products/workflows/

• Retool Mobile: https://retool.com/products/mobile

• Retool Database: https://retool.com/products/database

• Ian Leslie on “Being Human in the Age of AI”: https://www.econtalk.org/ian-leslie-on-being-human-in-the-age-of-ai/

• Claire Hughes Johnson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claire-hughes-johnson-7058/

• Scaling People: Tactics for Management and Company Building: https://www.amazon.com/Scaling-People-Tactics-Management-Building/dp/1953953212

• Linear: https://linear.app/

• Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life: https://www.amazon.com/Bird-Some-Instructions-Writing-Life/dp/0385480016/

• Lex Fridman Podcast: https://lexfridman.com/podcast/

• EconTalk: https://www.econlib.org/econtalk/

• The White Lotus on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-white-lotus

• Gong: https://www.gong.io/product-demo/

• FullStory: https://www.fullstory.com/

• Rewind: https://www.rewind.ai/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Eeke’s background

(03:36) Eeke’s time at Stripe

(08:58) Why Stripe didn’t add PMs until hitting around 100 employees

(11:03) Why being a PM is not for everyone

(12:22) Stripe’s internal culture guide

(17:36) Stripe’s operating principles 

(20:52) Why isn’t every team innovative?

(23:21) Retool’s “crazy ideas” list 

(27:27) How to cultivate a failure-safe space 

(28:47) Fostering risk-taking and innovation

(32:03) The three products Retool launched this year

(35:06) How Retool was able to launch several products at once

(38:00) The amount of process needed through different stages of growth

(45:37) Why you should build products for your “best users”

(47:34) Build the scooter, not the axle (why you should make something simple but functional first)

(48:37) The 70-20-10 framework for investing resources and time

(49:57) Finding time for maintenance and bug fixes

(50:59) How Retool’s PMs keep close to customers

(53:29) Building product in a sales-led org vs. product-led growth 

(56:10) The product talent portfolio: how to build diverse, balanced teams

(58:43) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Brought to you by OneSchema—import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny; Pando—always-on employee progression: https://www.pando.com/lenny; and Lenny’s Job Board—hire the best product people, find the best product gigs: https://www.lennysjobs.com/talent.

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Zoelle Egner is best known for her time at Airtable (currently valued at $11 billion), where she was the 11th employee and built and led the initial marketing and customer success teams. Currently she’s the Head of Marketing and Growth at Block Party, a company that designs consumer tools for online safety and anti-harassment. In today’s episode, we explore the marketing strategies that helped Airtable punch above its weight and build an established brand. We also dig into how Airtable was able to find its first super-users, how customer success played a key role in getting early traction, and the do’s and don’ts for marketing investments. Zoelle also shares her experience working for VaccinateCA (which ended up playing a massive role in helping get people vaccinated during the pandemic) and several tips for obtaining valuable customer feedback.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/lessons-from-airtables-unconventional-growth-strategy-zoelle-egner/#transcript

Where to find Zoelle Egner:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoelle

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zoelleegner/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Patrick McKenzie on Twitter: https://twitter.com/patio11

• The Last of Us on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-last-of-us

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/

• Block Party app: https://www.blockpartyapp.com/

• Kathy Sierra’s book Badass: Making Users Awesome: https://www.amazon.com/Badass-Making-Awesome-Kathy-Sierra/dp/1491919019

• Gainsight: https://www.gainsight.com/

• Datadog: https://www.datadoghq.com/

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• Zapier: https://zapier.com/

• Computing Taste: Algorithms and the Makers of Music Recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Computing-Taste-Algorithms-Makers-Recommendation/dp/0226822974

• Ancillary Justice: https://www.amazon.com/Ancillary-Justice-Imperial-Radch-Leckie/dp/031624662X/

• The Happiness Lab podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/id1474245040

• Gastropod podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/gastropod/id918896288

• Everything Everywhere All at Once on Showtime: https://www.sho.com/titles/3493875/everything-everywhere-all-at-once

• Extraordinary Attorney Woo on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81518991

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Webflow: https://webflow.com/

• Clay: https://www.clay.com/

• MKT1 Newsletter: https://newsletter.mkt1.co/

• Emily Kramer on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-build-a-powerful-marketing-machine-emily-kramer-asana-carta-mkt1/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) How VaccinateCA helped bridge a gap in infrastructure

(05:00) Zoelle’s lessons from her time at VaccinateCA

(18:04) How Zoelle broke into the tech industry

(19:01) Flocking patterns

(24:21) What Block Party does

(24:32) Zoelle’s storytelling

(29:15) Tactics for punching above your weight as a small startup

(31:30) The importance of having a highly detail-oriented person on staff

(33:33) Why Airtable used billboards

(36:43) Growth and marketing strategies at Airtable

(42:29) Using data provided by your customers to build features that help future customers

(50:59) Why customer success and marketing should be one team

(52:56) Things to avoid in marketing

(58:04) The power of templates

(1:00:58) Why Airtable did not prioritize templates for top-of-funnel revenue 

(1:02:04) Why just getting PR to “get PR” is not a good strategy

(1:04:57) The importance of getting customer feedback and investing in customer success

(1:05:51) Simple strategies for getting customer feedback

(1:07:53) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Brought to you by Pando—Always on employee progression (https://www.pando.com/lenny), Notion—One workspace. Every team (https://www.notion.com/lennyspod), and Lemon.io—A marketplace of vetted software developers (https://lemon.io/lenny).

Vijay Iyengar is Head of Product at Mixpanel, and similar to myself, came from an engineering background before transitioning to product. In today’s episode, he explains how Mixpanel has evolved its growth strategy from a fast-paced, feature-focused approach to a more deliberate approach that prioritizes design and user experience. He also shares how Mixpanel irons out customer problems, including implementing internal tools that allow engineering and product teams to respond to customer feedback directly. Additionally, Vijay shares his top SaaS products, books, frameworks, and more. Tune in to gain valuable insights from a seasoned product leader.

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/an-inside-look-at-mixpanels-product-journey-vijay-iyengar-head-of-product/#transcript

Where to find Vijay Iyengar:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/vijayiyengar

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vijay4/

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

Referenced:

• Mixpanel: https://mixpanel.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• “Shape Up: Stop Running in Circles and Ship Work That Matters”: https://basecamp.com/shapeup

• The RICE prioritization framework: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/rice-scoring-model/

• BigQuery: https://cloud.google.com/bigquery

• Census: https://www.getcensus.com/

• Zoom: https://zoom.us/

• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

• A Data Stack for PLG teams: https://mixpanel.com/blog/data-analytics-product-led-growth/

• Product analytics in the modern data stack: https://mixpanel.com/blog/mixpanel-partners-with-census-to-bring-product-analytics-to-the-modern-data-stack/

• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com/en/

• Amazon Redshift: https://www.amazonaws.cn/en/redshift/

• Event-Based Analytics: https://developer.mixpanel.com/docs/under-the-hood

• The Goal: A Process of Ongoing Improvement: https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Process-Ongoing-Improvement/dp/0884271951

• Cool Gray City of Love: 49 Views of San Francisco: https://www.amazon.com/Cool-Gray-City-Love-Francisco/dp/1608199606

• The West Wing Weekly podcast: http://thewestwingweekly.com/

• WeCrashed on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/wecrashed/

• Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/

• Gibson Biddle on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/gibson-biddle-on-his-dhm-product-strategy-framework-gem-roadmap-prioritization-framework-5-netflix-strategy-mini-case-studies-building-a-personal-board-of-directors-and-much-more/

• Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-coda-youtube-microsoft/

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Vijay’s background

(04:07) How Vijay learned to be more open-minded to new ideas 

(06:26) Mixpanel’s journey

(12:40) When to optimize for speed

(13:49) The feature phase vs. the design phase

(17:02) The importance of not losing focus on your core product

(19:52) How Mixpanel organizes teams around buckets of problems

(20:43) Mixpanel’s most recent six-month time horizon planning cycle

(25:08) The RICE framework for prioritization (and when to ignore the C and E)

(26:31) The problem with estimations, and why Basecamp suggests using a six-week time box

(30:04) How Mixpanel keeps product teams and engineers connected to customers via Slack 

(33:21) SaaS tools Mixpanel’s teams use

(34:54) The biggest product analytics mistakes

(37:34) The present and future of analytics 

(41:05) How adopting a product mindset has helped Vijay grow his career

(41:47) Lightning round

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Ravi was previously CPO at Tinder, Product Director at Facebook, and VP of Product at Tripadvisor. Currently, he’s co-founder and CEO of Outpace, a coaching platform designed to help people reach their professional goals. In today’s podcast, we dive deep into Ravi’s product strategy stack framework and how it was used to develop a powerful strategy at Tinder. We also cover his other popular frameworks—the frontier of understanding and exponential feedback—and how both of them can help you grow in your career. We discuss the differences between building product at a startup versus a large tech company, and how Ravi has had to shift his mindset as he’s moved away from a product leadership role into a founder role. Finally, he shares a bit about how Outpace is using AI to amplify coaches and help make them more efficient and effective.

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Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/building-your-product-strategy-stack-ravi-mehta-tinder-facebook-tripadvisor-outpace/#transcript

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Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:

• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app: http://merge.dev/lenny

• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster: https://oneschema.co/lenny

• Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny

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Where to find Ravi Mehta:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/ravi_mehta

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ravimehta/

• Website: https://www.ravi-mehta.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

Referenced:

Disclaimer: Lenny is an angel investor in Ravi’s company, Outpace

• Reforge’s Product Strategy Program created by Casey Winters and Fareed Mosavat: https://www.reforge.com/programs/product-strategy

• Matt Mochary on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/how-to-fire-people-with-grace-work-through-fear-and-nurture-innovation-matt-mochary/

• Indie Hackers: https://www.indiehackers.com/

• Everything Marketplaces: https://www.everythingmarketplaces.com/

• The Product Strategy Stack: https://www.ravi-mehta.com/product-strategy-stack/

• Balsamiq: https://balsamiq.com/

• Set better goals with NCTs, not OKRs: https://www.reforge.com/blog/set-better-goals-with-ncts-not-okrs

• Ravi’s product manager’s competencies framework: https://www.ravi-mehta.com/product-manager-roles/

• Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products: https://www.amazon.com/Hooked-How-Build-Habit-Forming-Products/dp/0241184835/

• Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250267595

• Ian McAllister on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/what-it-takes-to-become-a-top-1-pm-ian-mcallister-uber-amazon-airbnb/

• The Ezra Klein Show podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-ezra-klein-show/id1548604447

• Ezra Klein’s AI episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-skeptical-take-on-the-a-i-revolution/id1548604447?i=1000592835492

• Andor on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/series/star-wars-andor/3xsQKWG00GL5

• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/

• Superhuman: https://superhuman.com/

• Descript: https://www.descript.com/

•  Outpace: https://www.outpace.co

•  Unlock Your Product Manager Potential: https://www.outpace.co/guides/unlock-your-product-manager-potential

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Ravi’s background

(04:24) Why Ravi left Tinder, and what he’s been up to recently 

(08:05) Differences between working at an established tech company vs. a startup 

(12:45) Why founders should network with “early-stage” folks

(14:29) Why you need to do some research and relationship-building before starting your company

(17:49) What the product strategy stack is and how to use it

(22:08) Mission vs. vision

(23:37) How Ravi developed his strategy framework at Tripadvisor 

(26:43) Why PMs should understand design, UX, and UI

(28:20) Examples of the product strategy stack in action

(32:42) Why Tinder resisted adding filters 

(34:10) Monetization features at Tinder and the “whales” who spend the most

(38:18) How customer feedback led to new features at Tinder

(42:28) Why goals come after roadmap in Ravi’s framework

(44:30) Tripadvisor’s strategy for increasing bookings

(47:25) How to set goals that drive outcomes

(50:24) The four buckets of the frontier of understanding

(51:38) Different methods for trying to hit goals

(53:08) Understanding why you hit or missed your goal

(54:34) The product management competencies framework

(1:02:08) The exponential feedback framework

(1:04:25) Why you should ask for feedback—and graciously accept it

(1:06:05) How to determine the right amount of leadership your team needs

(1:09:40) What selective micro-management is

(1:12:25) How Outpace uses AI to assist in coaching

(1:15:24) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

John Cutler writes the popular and beloved product newsletter The Beautiful Mess. For many years, he was a Product Evangelist at Amplitude, which led him to meeting and working with a large number of product teams around the world. Through this role, he gained unique insight into how the best product teams operate. In today’s episode, John reflects on leaving his role at Amplitude, and explains the attributes that the top 1% of product teams share. We also go deep into some of his favorite frameworks and discuss the best way to apply these frameworks to your work. We also unpack skills like product sense and product mindset, and what he’s planning in his new role at Toast.

—

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/what-differentiates-the-highest-performing-product-teams-john-cutler-amplitude-the-beautiful-mess/#transcript

—

Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:

• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app: http://merge.dev/lenny

• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

—

Where to find John Cutler:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/johncutlefish

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnpcutler/

• Newsletter: https://cutlefish.substack.com/

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

Referenced:

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• The North Star Playbook: https://info.amplitude.com/north-star-playbook

• Craig Daniel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/craigmdaniel/

• Working Backwards: Insights, Stories, and Secrets from Inside Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Working-Backwards-Insights-Stories-Secrets/dp/1250267595

• AppFolio: https://www.appfolio.com/

• High Leverage Product Evangelism: https://cutlefish.substack.com/p/high-leverage-product-evangelism

• Satya Nadella on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/satyanadella/

• The Culture Map: Breaking Through the Invisible Boundaries of Global Business: https://www.amazon.com/Culture-Map-Breaking-Invisible-Boundaries/dp/1610392507

• Innovation Labs: https://innovationlabs.com/

• BEES: https://mybeesapp.com/

• Marty Cagan on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-nature-of-product-marty-cagan#details

• Sooner Safer Happier: Antipatterns and Patterns for Business Agility: https://www.amazon.com/Sooner-Safer-Happier-Patterns-Antipatterns/dp/1942788916

• Teresa Torres on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teresatorres/

• Andrew Huberman on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab/?hl=en

• TBM 49/52: Pyramid of Leadership Self/Other Awareness: https://cutlefish.substack.com/p/tbm-4952-pyramid-of-leadership-selfother

• ChatGPT: https://chat.openai.com/chat

• How to Measure Anything: Finding the Value of Intangibles in Business: https://www.amazon.com/How-Measure-Anything-Intangibles-Business-ebook/dp/B00INUYS2U

• Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations: https://www.amazon.com/Accelerate-Software-Performing-Technology-Organizations/dp/1942788339

• User Story Mapping: Discover the Whole Story, Build the Right Product: https://www.amazon.com/User-Story-Mapping-Discover-Product/dp/B08TZGKKF2

• Build with Maggie Crowley podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/build-with-maggie-crowley/id1445050691

• One Knight in Product podcast: https://www.oneknightinproduct.com/index.html#page-top

• Sunny Bunnies on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81286920

• Booba on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81011059

• Toast: https://pos.toasttab.com/

• Drift: https://www.drift.com/

John’s list of high-performing people worth following:

• Dr. Cat Hicks (@grimalkina) https://www.linkedin.com/in/drcathicks/ 

• Stephanie Leue https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephanie-leue/

• Amy Edmondson (@AmyCEdmondson) https://www.linkedin.com/in/amedmondson/

• Dominica DeGrandis (@dominicad) https://www.linkedin.com/in/dominicadeg/

• Courtney Kissler https://www.linkedin.com/in/courtney-kissler-0930681/

• Christina Wodtke (@cwodtke) https://www.linkedin.com/in/christinawodtke/

• Matthew Skelton https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewskelton/

• Heidi Helfand (@heidihelfand): https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidihelfand/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) What is a product evangelist? John’s unique role at Amplitude

(05:50) John’s reflections and feelings on leaving Amplitude

(17:28) What John’s doing next

(18:52) John’s newsletter: The Beautiful Mess

(27:49) What do the top 1% of product teams have in common?

(40:08) Different ways companies are successful, and why anyone can improve

(45:55) Investing in people vs. investing in processes

(48:49) The importance of culture and values

(49:59) Global company cultures: the individualist vs. the collectivist  

(55:55) Why it’s hard to make changes in large companies

(58:49) How to view frameworks

(1:01:02) The spectrum of performance in big and small companies

(1:05:27) Examples of high-performing people who work outside of Silicon Valley

(1:09:02) The skill of product management

(1:11:35) The value of learning a bit about everything

(1:13:46) Why do people often underestimate the loops available at their company

(1:16:20) Chronic vs. acute issues at companies

(1:18:07) Unpacking the skills behind product sense and product mindset

(1:20:44) A place for people without the traditional meritocracy mindset

(1:22:38) John’s writing process and what he plans on writing about next

(1:27:52) How to use ChatGPT for learning and levity

(1:31:56) Lightning Round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyr

Naomi Ionita is a Partner at the venture capital firm, Menlo Ventures. She started her career in engineering in 2002, shifted to product in 2006, and built product growth and monetization teams starting over a decade ago as one of the first PLG leaders in B2B. She was an early mentor at Reforge and her expertise is in building full-stack growth teams and cultures, launching new products, and helping existing products monetize and retain their users. Consider today’s episode a master class on monetization and pricing. We talk about common mistakes made by founders, specific experiments for how to determine pricing, and why initial growth sometimes comes at the expense of revenue. Naomi also introduces the concept of the Modern Growth Stack, how AI will play a role in growth, and what she’s most excited about for the future.

—

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-to-price-your-product-naomi-ionita-menlo-ventures/#transcript

—

Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:

• Miro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny

• Notion—One workspace. Every team: https://www.notion.com/lennyspod

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

—

Where to find Naomi:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/npilosof

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomipilosofionita/

• Website: https://www.menlovc.com/naomi-pilosof-ionita

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

Referenced:

Disclaimer: Lenny is an angel investor in a few startups mentioned in this episode: Eppo, Endgame, Pocus

• Evernote: https://evernote.com/

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• The Van Westendorp pricing model: https://www.forbes.com/sites/rebeccasadwick/2020/06/22/how-to-price-products/?sh=7e6077f855c7

• OpenView: https://openviewpartners.com/

• SaaS business model at Profitwell: https://www.profitwell.com/recur/all/saas-business-model

• Envoy: https://envoy.com/

• Invoice2go: https://invoice.2go.com/

• Gas: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gas/id1641791746

• Endgame: https://www.endgame.io/

• Pocus: https://www.pocus.com/

• Optimizely: https://www.optimizely.com/

• Eppo: https://www.geteppo.com/

• Amplitude: https://amplitude.com/

• Chargebee: https://www.chargebee.com/

• Zuora: https://www.zuora.com/

• Metronome: https://metronome.com/

• Orb: https://www.withorb.com/

• Monetizing Innovation: How Smart Companies Design the Product Around the Price: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867

• Ask the Storybots on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80108159

• Madhavan Ramanujam on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/videos/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan-ramanujam-monetizing-innovation-simon-kucher/

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Naomi’s background

(06:21) Why Evernote wasn’t able to leverage the kind of growth that Notion did

(08:06) What founders get wrong when it comes to monetization

(12:34) Which features to include in a freemium product

(13:22) Day one vs. day one-hundred premium features

(15:35) Matching price to value for optimal segmentation

(18:50) When pricing should be revisited

(19:38) How to determine price, and why it’s a good idea to have a cross-functional pricing team

(23:06) How to restructure pricing holistically 

(25:58) How Envoy learned that they were undercharging

(28:39) The importance of experimentation 

(32:19) How to balance growth with revenue

(35:12) What is the modern data stack?

(36:45) The modern growth stack

(42:22) The importance of experimentation in the growth stack

(42:59) Platforms for billing and monetization

(46:13) Why a hybrid model of pricing tends to be most used in SaaS companies

(49:01) Leveraging AI 

(49:52) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].

Yuhki Yamashita is Chief Product Officer at Figma. Prior to Figma, he was Head of Design of Uber’s New Mobility efforts, and before that a product manager at Google and Microsoft. Adding to his impressive resume, Yuhki also taught introductory computer science at Harvard. In today's episode, we talk about operationalizing quality, the case against OKRs, and how Figma isn't just known for product-led growth, but also for building a community of empowered users. Yuhki also shares why he thinks storytelling is key to being a great product manager, owning the "why," and the potential impact of Adobe's acquisition of Figma.

—

Find the full transcript here: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/an-inside-look-at-how-figma-builds-product-yuhki-yamashita-cpo-of-figma/#transcript

—

Thank you to our wonderful sponsors for supporting this podcast:

• Notion—One workspace. Every team: https://www.notion.com/lennyspod

• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny

• Flatfile—A CSV importer that says yes instead of error: mismatch: https://www.flatfile.com/lenny

—

Where to find Yuhki Yamashita:

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/yuhkiyam

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yuhki/

• Website: https://www.figma.com/@yuhki

—

Where to find Lenny:

• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com

• Twitter: https://twitter.com/lennysan

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

—

Referenced:

• Yuhki’s guest post on Lenny’s Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-figma-builds-product

• Shishir Mehrotra on Lenny’s Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-rituals-of-great-teams-shishir-mehrotra-of/id1627920305?i=1000576021672

• Five Why’s template: https://www.figma.com/templates/5-whys-template/

• Dylan Field on Twitter: https://twitter.com/zoink

• Jeff Holden on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jeffholden

• Figma: https://www.figma.com/

• Friends of Figma: https://friends.figma.com/

• Camille Ricketts on Lenny’s Podcast: https://www.lennyspodcast.com/how-notion-leveraged-community-to-build-a-10b-business-camille-ricketts-notion-first-round-capital/

• Adobe Illustrator: https://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator/campaign/pricing.html

• Adobe Photoshop: https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/

• Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard: https://www.amazon.com/Switch-Change-Things-When-Hard/dp/0385528752/

• The Story of the Stone, or The Dream of the Red Chamber: https://www.amazon.com/Story-Stone-Dream-Chamber-Vol/dp/0140442936

• Serial podcast: https://serialpodcast.org/

• The Good Nurse on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81260083

• FigJam: https://www.figma.com/figjam/

• Asana: https://asana.com/

• Slack: https://slack.com/

• Notion: https://www.notion.so/

• Dropbox Paper: https://www.dropbox.com/paper/start

• Figma’s Alignment Scale: https://www.figma.com/community/widget/1030848035996871692

—

In this episode, we cover:

(00:00) Yuhki’s background

(09:05) What Yuhki learned from being on a design team

(10:29) Why managing designers is more difficult than managing product teams

(12:20) Why storytelling is important for product managers

(16:35) How to improve your storytelling skills 

(18:51) Why PMs need to know the “why” of the product they are managing

(22:34) The importance of developing a community and strong customer relationships

(26:13) How to use different types of feedback

(28:11) Working with Dylan Field

(32:44) Testing at Figma and the branching emerging feature

(34:54) Why your entire company should be using your product

(36:50) The importance of having personal accountability 

(38:48) Why Yuhki likes to stay out of the way of engineers fixing their own bugs

(40:50) Yuhki’s thoughts on OKRs and how they are used at Figma

(48:40) Figma’s interview process

(51:45) How Figma’s sales team works by creating human connections and empowering designers

(54:57) How Figma built community and created organic growth

(56:36) Advice for founders 

(58:57) The potential acquisition by Adobe and the future possibilities for Figma

(1:01:42) Closing thoughts 

(1:03:44) Lightning round

—

Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email [email protected].